Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Detachable Collar and Cuff  (Read 5706 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pvt. Kaiser
Guest
« on: January 04, 2014, 02:24:10 AM »

Hello,

Are detachable Collars and Cuffs on a Dress Shirt commom to Civil war times ?

Thanks,
Logged
Pvt. Kaiser
Guest
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2014, 01:53:25 PM »

A little more Input, I want to make the shirt after the LM107 Pattern, View B, with the alterations straight sideseams, slit in the cuff in the seam
and do the hem with a twice 1/4" turned under .
Collar and Cuff out of white Linnen, and the body with a red cotton fabric with pile colored print on it.
Logged
Chip
Dedicated Scribbler
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 332



« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2014, 04:22:33 AM »


Collar and Cuff out of white Linen, and the body with a red cotton fabric with pile colored print on it.

You might want to think about what you will use the shirt for....

http://home.earthlink.net/~gchristen/Mens1.html


Detachable cuffs were pretty rare until later in the century.
Logged
Carolann Schmitt
Moderator
Scribblor Infinitus
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4274


WWW
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2014, 06:50:10 AM »

Detachable collars on white dress shirts are fairly common in the mid-19th century. Detachable cuffs are very unusual.

Regards,
Carolann
Logged

Carolann Schmitt - Only a historian understands how much you need to know in order to recognize how much you don't know. - Elizabeth Ann Coleman
cschmitt@genteelarts.com
www.genteelarts.com
Elizabeth
Administrator
Scribblor Infinitus
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7892


WWW
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2014, 08:25:46 AM »

The combo of white linen front with red cotton shirt is something I'd look at, too; it's a very big contrast in "formality", if you will, and the red may not be as stable as you'd like--crocking off on the front and collar, and shadowing through the front.
Logged

Regards,
Elizabeth
Dylan Woodliff
Guest
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2014, 06:51:28 AM »

I would also be careful with red cotton, and be prepared for pink collar and cuffs upon perspiration or washing. Be careful with red cottons, they can ruin the linings of trousers, waistcoats, and coats if made of a lighter material. Get ready for terrible pink tie dye streaks on anything white worn with such a garment.
I have yet to see an original shirt with high-contrast cuffs, though I have seen what I have presumed to be shirts with turn-down white collars worn under a sporty striped or printed band-collar shirt (http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/cwpb.04032/?co=cwp : the fellow seated in the middle). I have not seen or read of any detachable cuffs; certainly not for a sporty rather than dressy printed calico cotton shirt. There are plenty of nice printed shirts with pleated bosoms, but these generally have fixed collars and cuffs of the same fabric or are made of subtly contrasting prints or pattern on white background.
Save the linen for an all white shirt of a more formal nature.
Just my two cents. Best of luck with the project!

J.D. Woodliff
Logged
Joseph Stevens
Dedicated Scribbler
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 276


Baby sister and I, Cheadle Lake, May 2012


« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2014, 12:59:32 PM »

I have not seen or read of any detachable cuffs; certainly not for a sporty rather than dressy printed calico cotton shirt.

Well don't tell that to Ward Shirt & Collar Manufacturing that advertised and illustrated detachable cuffs in the early 1860's.

It's reprinted in both Thoughts on Men's Shirts and Shep's Civil War Gentlemen.

Logged

Joseph Stevens


"Oh, I like tedious, practical subjects. What I don't like are tedious, practical people." -Oscar Wilde; An Ideal Husband
Dylan Woodliff
Guest
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2014, 01:54:35 PM »

I stand corrected, though how common were they?
Still, seems to be a bit of a novelty feature for a shirt. Does anyone know of a surviving original with this feature?
Is it not better to portray what was common during the area rather than the novel?
Logged
Elizabeth
Administrator
Scribblor Infinitus
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7892


WWW
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2014, 06:10:40 PM »

If it's advertised in mail-order, it's hit the mainstream. That's serious bulk  manufacture.

The red cotton with white linen still gives me pause.
Logged

Regards,
Elizabeth
Dylan Woodliff
Guest
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2014, 10:56:36 AM »

Wow. I had no idea such massive scale collar (and cuff) manufacturing was going on in New York at this time. I knew collars were widely available and fitting for dress shirts. Ward's shirts and collars are excellent! I wish I could order a half dozen pleated bosom shirts and a dozen collars - would save us all so much time.
I'm curious about detachable cuffs from the period. I'm familiar with the variety of available detachable cuffs in the postwar period. How were period detachable cuffs different from attached cuffs that could be turned back to show the cleanest side?
Logged
Chip
Dedicated Scribbler
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 332



« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2014, 03:57:01 PM »

I would also be careful with red cotton, and be prepared for pink collar and cuffs upon perspiration or washing. Be careful with red cottons, they can ruin the linings of trousers, waistcoats, and coats if made of a lighter material. Get ready for terrible pink tie dye streaks on anything white worn with such a garment.

J.D. Woodliff

Dylan,

I understand where you are coming from in terms of dye bleeding.

One of my favorite civilian shirts is one made with dark cuffs and a dark collar:

http://s621.photobucket.com/user/Chip42/media/contrastingcuffsandcollar_zps9d6ed77e.jpg.html?sort=3&o=33


While it is a civilian shirt, I can also wear it under a uniform. (black powder stains are next to impossible to completely remove from a white cuff.)

So, in essence, my choice in making a shirt with dark cuffs was somewhat of a choice derived from understanding what parts of the shirt usually get dirty the quickest.

The shirt was completed with dark china buttons.  
« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 09:41:08 PM by Chip » Logged
Pvt. Kaiser
Guest
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2014, 12:05:32 AM »


Collar and Cuff out of white Linen, and the body with a red cotton fabric with pile colored print on it.

You might want to think about what you will use the shirt for....

http://home.earthlink.net/~gchristen/Mens1.html


Detachable cuffs were pretty rare until later in the century.

Okay, I need a Business Shirt .
The Idea of black cuffs and collar sound interesting too.
I will post a picture of the fabric this day.
Logged
hanktrent
Senior Research
Scribblor Infinitus
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1089


« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2014, 07:09:10 AM »

One of my favorite civilian shirts is one made with dark cuffs and a dark collar:

http://s621.photobucket.com/user/Chip42/media/contrastingcuffsandcollar_zps9d6ed77e.jpg.html?sort=3&o=33


While it is a civilian shirt, I can also wear it under a uniform. (black powder stains are next to impossible to completely remove from a white cuff.)

So, in essence, my choice in making a shirt with dark cuffs was somewhat of a choice derived from understanding what parts of the shirt usually get dirty the quickest.

Just noticed that. That's a photo of a reproduction, not original, right? What original evidence is it based on? It just seems counterintuitive to period mindset, because black dye would eventually fade and look poor with repeated washing, while white could be boiled hard and scrubbed to come clean, so I'm curious to see an original like that or a description.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com
Logged
Chip
Dedicated Scribbler
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 332



« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2014, 12:17:55 PM »


Just noticed that. That's a photo of a reproduction, not original, right? What original evidence is it based on? It just seems counterintuitive to period mindset, because black dye would eventually fade and look poor with repeated washing, while white could be boiled hard and scrubbed to come clean, so I'm curious to see an original like that or a description.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

The shirt is a reproduction based on a photograph.   (My photo makes the plaid look much brighter than it actually is.)

The inspiration for the shirt came from a CDV taken by Dr. Switzer at the Joseph Holt Army Hospital in Jeffersonville, Indiana of a soldier with wounds. He was dressed in a plaid shirt with solid dark colored cuffs and collar. The shirt sleeve on one arm was rolled up exposing a severe wound. He also had a partially shaved head showing a bandaged head wound.

In terms of your point about light colored collars, there are photos showing plaid shirts with white or light colored collars.
Examples: The Civil War in Color   John Guntzelman   Sterling, New York, 2012    page 149 and page 197
No way to tell if either is detachable.

However, I can not recollect any photos of plaid colored shirts with white cuffs.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 01:46:07 PM by Chip » Logged
Chip
Dedicated Scribbler
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 332



« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2014, 09:17:35 AM »


Just noticed that. That's a photo of a reproduction, not original, right? What original evidence is it based on? It just seems counterintuitive to period mindset, because black dye would eventually fade and look poor with repeated washing, while white could be boiled hard and scrubbed to come clean, so I'm curious to see an original like that or a description.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-c1855-1865-MAN-PLAYING-A-VIOLIN-OR-FIDDLE-AMBROTYPE-WITH-POEMS-HAIR-/301334807520?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item4628f443e0
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines