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Author Topic: ?Crochet? Frog Closure  (Read 1919 times)
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Mother Dean
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« on: July 10, 2013, 06:53:46 AM »

Hello All,
I hope that everyone has had very exciting weekends this season. I am looking ahead to this fall and new cold weather clothes. Here is an image that I found from Der Bazar January 1863:



I have found very nice frog closures on-line but for the amount that I will need, I would rather make them. Does anyone have directions for making this up, or something similar? It really looks to me like it was crocheted. I am hoping that it is because that would open up the color choices a great deal.

Thanks so much for your thoughts.
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Jessamyn
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2013, 04:49:22 PM »

Aha! I found it in La Mode Illustree from the same year. It IS crocheted. I can't tell much else from the crummy tiny text (which is also in French, but I can work that out if I can read it), and the PDF download is not working for me, but maybe you can get more out of it. Page 35.

http://books.google.com/books?ei=afHdUeuAM8yPyAH0eg&id=-xl0bRLQtSwC&dq=la+mode+illustree&jtp=35
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Sarah K.
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2013, 06:49:51 PM »

Here's a link to the Bazar German version:
http://books.google.com/books?id=NZ5LAAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=der+bazar+1863&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xwzeUejnKOKJyAH9soCACA&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

The instructions are two pages further, to the left of the men's cravat with the nice interlocking criss-cross knot.

I could maybe limp my way through understanding/translating, but since my grasp of crochet patterns in English is not solid, I'm not sure how much help I'd be! Plus the specialized language of knitting and crochet patterns in German is not my usual area, so I have to do a bit more research and try it out to see if I've gotten it right.

I can't zoom in enough for it to be easy reading, either, since it's in Fraktur, so I'm downloading the PDF to see if I can glean anything better from it. I'll let you know if it suggests colors!
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I put my bashfulness in my pocket, and plunge into a long conversation on the war, the weather, music, Carlyle, skating, genius, hoops, and the immortality of the soul. Hospital Sketches Alcott
Sarah K.
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2013, 07:53:08 PM »

They suggest "very strong black cordonet (?) silk" for most of it.
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I put my bashfulness in my pocket, and plunge into a long conversation on the war, the weather, music, Carlyle, skating, genius, hoops, and the immortality of the soul. Hospital Sketches Alcott
Mother Dean
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2013, 08:18:21 PM »

Here is part of the French version. I'm not sure that I got all of it or even if it is what I am looking for. The translated version was a mess.


AGRAFE AU CROCHET.

- ?1 jet? , - diminution. - Recommencez quatre fois depuis " ; - une a l'endroit, -1 jet?, - diminution , - 5 ? l'endroit, - 1 jet?, - diminution, - une ? l'endroit, 1 jet?, - diminution , -une ? l'endroit.

27? tour. -Une lev?e, - 2 ? l'endroit; - * 1 jet?, - diminution. -- Recommencez quatre fois depuis ?; - une a l'endroit, -- 1 jet?, - une a l'endroit, - 1 jet? , - diminution,- 2 a l'endroit, -diminution , -_ 1 jet?, - diminution , - une a?l'endroit , - 1 jet?, -- 3 ? l'endroit.

On r?p?te ces tours depuis le 5? tour. jusqu'? ce que l'on ait la longueur voulue, puis on encadre les pleins, en passant autour, en reprises, du fil plat, ainsi que l'indique le dessin.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 08:20:29 PM by Mother Dean » Logged

Sarah K.
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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2013, 07:12:47 AM »

I'm including both the German and my first-pass translation. Keep in mind I don't have specialized dictionaries on the topic, so anything in parentheses or with a question-mark indicates a word I'm unsure of, or indicates a possible alternate understanding of a word.

Gehaekelte Agraffe
Hierzu die Abbildung Nr. 51.
Material: Sehr starke schwarze Cordonnet-Seide; gegluehter feiner Blumendraht, etwas offene Seide, gedrehte Seidenschnur, ein Bikeschen- oder Olivenknopf.

[crocheted agrafe
see figure 51.
Materials: very strong (or heavy) black Cordonnet(?) silk, coated (or annealed?) thin florists wire, some open(?) silk, twisted silk cord, a Bikeschen(?) or olive(?) button.]

Die originalgrosse Abbildung der Agraffe laesst deutlich zu erkennen, dass jeder ihrer beiden Hauptteile einen Zweig mit einer 5 blaettrigen Blume und den dazu gehoerigen Blaettern bildet. Groesse und Form jedes einzelnen Haekeltheils, sowie auch die Zusammensetzung desselben lassen sich ebenfalls aus der Abbildung entnehmen.

[The full-size figure of the agrafe shows clearly that both of the main portions are formed by a twig with a 5 petaled flower and the accompanying leaves. The size and shape of each individual crochet piece, as well as the assembly of the pieces, can also be gleaned from the figure.]

Saemmtliche Blumen- und Blattheile werden mit sehr starker schwarzer Cordonnet-Seide von der Mitte aus schneckenfoermig in der Runde mit festen Kettenmaschen ausgefuehrt. Zu den ovalen Theilen werden 5-7 M. als mittele Ader des Ovals aufgelegt und je nach der erforderlichen Groesse des zu arbeitenden Theils 2, 4, oder 6 Touren um diesen Anschlag gehaekelt.

[All flower and leaf pieces are made with very strong (see above) black Cordonnet(see above) Silk and are made from the middle out, spiraled like a snail, in the round, using firm(or tight) chain stitches (Don't know if this means a particular stitch). For the oval pieces, a center vein is made by hooking 5-7 stitches, and, depending on the required size of the piece being made, 2, 4, or 6 rows are crocheted around this beginning.]

I'll keep going in a bit - I have to step away from the computer for a few minutes!

(Edited to turn umlauts into ligatures to make it readable.)
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 10:53:08 AM by Sarah K. » Logged

I put my bashfulness in my pocket, and plunge into a long conversation on the war, the weather, music, Carlyle, skating, genius, hoops, and the immortality of the soul. Hospital Sketches Alcott
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« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2013, 09:04:26 AM »

Again, German then English! things in parentheses are mine.

In jeder Tour nimmt man nun an beiden Enden des Anschlags einige M. zu, damit sich eine ovale Flaeche bildet.

[On every row, add a few stitches on both ends of the vein, so that an oval surface forms.]

--- Zu den runden Theilen legt man 3-4 M. auf, schleisst dieselben zum Ringe und haekelt darum schneckenfoermig bei fortwaehrendem Zunehmen, bis eine runde glatte Flaeche von der erforderlichen Groesse entstanden ist.

[For the round pieces, cast on (hook) 3-4 stitches, close them into rings, and crochet around them in a snail-like spiral while continually adding stitches, until a round flat surface of the required size is formed.]

--- Um ein gezacktes Blaettchen herzustellen, wird ein Anschlag wie zu den ovalen Blaettern gemacht und derselbe einmal rings umhaekelt. Man arbeitet bis etwa zur Mitte einer Laengenseite, alsdann 3 L., und haekelt, die Arbeit umwendend, auf den beiden ersten der 3 L. und den zuletzt gearbeiteten M. zurueck, bis zum Anfang der Tour; von hier aus fuehrt man an der anderen Seite ebenfalls eine hin- und zurueck gehende Tour in derselben weise aus.

[To create a toothed leaf, make a starting chain like for the oval leaves, and then crochet around it. Work until about the middle of one of the long sides, thereupon 3 L.(?), turn the piece and crochet back over the first two of the 3 L.(?) and the most recently worked stitches, until the beginning of the row; from here make a back and forth row on the other side in the same way.]

More in a bit!!! Maybe some one else will understand what "L." is...


(Edited to turn umlauts into ligatures to make it readable.)
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 10:54:21 AM by Sarah K. » Logged

I put my bashfulness in my pocket, and plunge into a long conversation on the war, the weather, music, Carlyle, skating, genius, hoops, and the immortality of the soul. Hospital Sketches Alcott
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2013, 09:06:54 AM »

Gah, just realized that this forum doesn't accept the umlauts and esszets the way I've been entering them. I'll go back and edit for that after I've gotten the whole thing done.



(Edited to add: I've turned the umlauts into ligatures to make it readable. I can't figure out how to make the unusual characters show up correctly, even when using UTF-8 or ASCII codes.)
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 10:55:10 AM by Sarah K. » Logged

I put my bashfulness in my pocket, and plunge into a long conversation on the war, the weather, music, Carlyle, skating, genius, hoops, and the immortality of the soul. Hospital Sketches Alcott
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2013, 10:42:22 AM »

Ok, the last bit!  Grin

Alle einzelnen Haekeltheile, bei deren jedem die linke Seite der Haekelarbeit die obere, rechte Seite bildet, werden nun nach Angabe der Abbildung geordnet und zusammengesetzt. Die Stiele bildet man aus schwarzer Schnur, welche man dicht mit offener schwarzer Seide umwickelt und dabei einen feinen Blumendraht einfuegt, mittelst welchem man die Stiele biegen kann.

[All of the individual crocheted pieces form the top, right side, using the wrong sides of the individual pieces. Organize and assemble the pieces as the figure shows. The stem is made of black cord, which gets tightly wrapped with open(?) black silk, and a thin piece of florist's wire is wrapped with it. The wire allows the stems to be bent.]

Man naeht die Haekeltheile auf den Stielen fest und verbirgt das Ende der letzteren under einem kleinen ovalen Haekeltheil, der auch den Ansatz einer Schlinge von gedrehter Seidenschnur bedeckt. Einer der beiden vollendeten Agraffentheile erhaelt an der vorderen Spitze der Schlinge einen sogenannten Oliven- oder Bikeschenknopf.

[The crocheted pieces are sewn firmly to the stems. The end of the stem is hidden under one of the small oval crocheted pieces, which also hides the end of the loop made of twisted silk cord. One of the two completed agrafe pieces has a "olive" or "Bikeschen" button on the outside tip of the loop.]

I hope this helps! All of my posts together contain the full text and translation of the Der Bazar version of this pattern.


(Edited to turn umlauts into ligatures to make it readable.)
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 10:55:56 AM by Sarah K. » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2013, 02:21:35 PM »

Sarah - You are amazing!!!! I can totally understand the directions by what you have done. I am very excited! I will be making these up for our winter outer garments. I should probably get your address so that I can send you some, since you have done all of the work on these so far. Wink
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Sarah K.
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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2013, 03:32:04 PM »

I certainly won't turn down a set  Shocked Grin

Glad to help. I'm actually a trained translator, so it's nice to do something fun that fits with my off-the-beaten-path interests!

Also, if anyone who speaks German can give insight to a few of the terms with question marks (particularly the "L." which might mean "Laengen" but that's just a guess), suggestions are welcome!

(edited to fix umlauts. Again. Oops! Also, if anyone knows what "Bikeschen" buttons are, that'd be cool to know too.)
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 07:03:30 PM by Sarah K. » Logged

I put my bashfulness in my pocket, and plunge into a long conversation on the war, the weather, music, Carlyle, skating, genius, hoops, and the immortality of the soul. Hospital Sketches Alcott
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« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2014, 12:31:03 PM »

Also, if anyone who speaks German can give insight to a few of the terms with question marks (particularly the "L." which might mean "Laengen" but that's just a guess), suggestions are welcome!

With some quick Google sleuthing, my best bet would be "Luftmasche;" chain stitch.
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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2014, 03:48:55 PM »

And I believe Agraffe is "clasp".
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