Children's Coats - Patterns?

[snowcraig]

I have seen several wonderful examples of children's coats posted on the Sewing Academy.  Are there commercially available patterns our there for children?  Not babies, but children.  My kids have been wearing too small saques for quite some time and it is time to get them into proper coats.  I'm not good at drafting my own patterns, but with some tips/suggestions, might be able to manage it.  Size wise, I'm looking at about a 5T or regular 5.

Thanks for any help you can offer!

Jess Craig

[Malinda Byrne]

Jess,
Drafting up one for Maggie is on my list of things to do.  If you don't find one before I get around to it, I'll share what I come up with.  This probably won't happen for a few months yet, though. 
Malinda

[annmaddox]

Yes, Harriet Engler has one now for children.
It has several sizes in one folder.
I have it in my pattern drawer, but haven't tried it out yet.  It is however, on the list of summer sewing.

[Sarah Jane Meister]

For my boys the past year or so I've made smaller versions of a sack style coat like David wears for military use. One back, two fronts, two coat sleeves and a simple collar shape. I am not aware of any commercial patterns out there, but they are simple to draw up yourself if you have a basic idea of the pattern shapes. If you'd like a copy of the one I used for the guys let me know. It could be a jumping off point.

Sarah

Edited: here is a picture of Judah's coat; he's in a size 4/5 right now and this coat is really roomy on him -

Edited again  to say that I think the style might look better if i had made a facing for the lapel area of the coat so Judah could have had the top button positioned a bit farther down (and forgive the shell buttons on the coat at the moment; I was out of covered button stuff and had nothing else to use)

[LissaWilson]

For the boy's jacket are you looking for that open-type look or a longer coat to cover a tunic? The basic jacket pattern from Godey's is perfect for the former style, and there are some original longer cloak patterns as well. For the shorter roundabout look, I modify a Period Impressions pattern. I could be more specific and point you in the right direction if you have a specific style in mind.

[LissaWilson]

Okay, I'm perusing the Harriet Engler patterns, are they even accurate? She sells a tunic/pants combo in sizes 10-14, for an age range where boys would be past tunics and into menswear.

The boys & girls coat have the same picture, are they supposed to be interchangeable? A paletote from my understanding has lines that are much different from a boy's cloak. Those are pretty expensive patterns to make a mistake on. Are they even useable from an accuracy standpoint? (I'd be looking at the coat, sack coat or frock coat patterns.)

[annmaddox]

The HE pattern has trim options for girls & boys.  It is a longer paletot style which is what I wanted w/ my 2 girls, but can be lenthened & shortened.
The pieces seam to have similar shapes to my adult paletot pattern pieces, but that's as far as I know about accuracy.  I have taken it out the package twice but neither time was for detail.  It was a gift from my mom after I drafted their first paletots & she thought I was crazy.
 

[Marta Vincent]

In the original patterns I use for children's outerwear, many of the little ones are pretty much unisex, and even as they get older (up to about age 8-10, the shapes are pretty similar.  The one thing I do note, however, is that they all tend to swing out in more of a slight A shape, than straight  like a sack. 

So, if you want a coat - make the jacket longer - almost mid thigh length - and swing the side seams out some. It is shaped to go over a pouffy skirt, or tunic and blousey trousers. 

If it will indeed be a jacket for a girl (to wear over a dress for coolish weather), it still swings out a very little bit, but ends at waist length.  The front can be straight or in a generous curve up from side seam to neck edge.  For boys, a jacket can be about hip length and cut very much like a sack.

By the time they are about age 10, boys wear men's styles & girl tend to wear more women's styles in outerwear.

Look at some of the outerwear in our children's clothing section for an idea of shapes and lengths.  ALL except the rainwear are cut from original patterns in the original size! http://shop.originals-by-kay.com/category.sc?categoryId=79

[Sarah Jane Meister]

So are sacks NOT slightly A shaped? 

The coats I made for David and Judah I sized up from the VERY squat, A-line shaped sacques they used as infants and toddlers. There is still a pretty slanty curve to the side seam in the front, and slight in the back. Instead of having a single fastening at the neck I made it fasten all the way down the front and added a turn down collar since their infant coats I just bound the neck edge and there was no collar at all.

Thinking on Big David's sack coat now I see how his is pretty much straight from the armpit to the hem.

So now I have no idea what to call my boys coats! If they are NOT sack coats, what are they then? Just plain coats? 

Sarah

[Paula]

So now I have no idea what to call my boys coats! If they are NOT sack coats, what are they then? Just plain coats? 
Sarah

Adorable.

[Elizabeth]

There's a big variety, Sarah... I'd vote for calling yours adorable, too. I think we like to put official names on things more often than the Original Cast did, personally.

[LissaWilson]

Adorable.

I have to agree. And for reference, here is the type of jacket I was talking about:



They are great for topping button suits or over transitional clothing, but probably would not cover a tunic. Also good for chilly summer rain & events, but not really as an overcoat in winter. I generally find this style to be pretty versatile.

[Marta Vincent]

So are sacks NOT slightly A shaped? 

The coats I made for David and Judah I sized up from the VERY squat, A-line shaped sacques they used as infants and toddlers. There is still a pretty slanty curve to the side seam in the front, and slight in the back. Instead of having a single fastening at the neck I made it fasten all the way down the front and added a turn down collar since their infant coats I just bound the neck edge and there was no collar at all.

Thinking on Big David's sack coat now I see how his is pretty much straight from the armpit to the hem.

So now I have no idea what to call my boys coats! If they are NOT sack coats, what are they then? Just plain coats? 

Sarah

Oooops!  Sorry Sarah!  I was thinking men's sack coat sack - not baby ones... Duuuhhh!!! 

Yours are great.  But, I wouldn't call those sacks.  I'd call them jackets... I know... semantics.   

In my CW vocab, sacks are the short coats men & boys wear with trousers, shirt, tie, waistcoat, etc. - as opposed to frock coats...  In the mainly original patterns I have used, NONE of the outerwear for children has been called a sack. They are all jackets, paletotes, coats, mantles, etc.  So apologies if I unknowingly dissed your boy's jacket. Never intentional.    And in my defense, the photo of the little guy in the red jacket does not show its shape. 

[Sarah Jane Meister]

Oh no! Thank you for the clarification. Actually, I never was able to come across a period image of a young boy wearing a coat to cover a tunic last year when I needed to make the boys coats, so I just lengthened their sacques (as opposed to a sack)  and added a collar and made them button down the front. So, I don't actually have documentation of this style.  It was the desperate measure of a frantically-researching-but-not-turning-up-anything mother whose boys needed to have something warm to wear for an event. I love the cut-away style coats with the rounded fronts but those don't keep out drafts. . .and the cloak pattern I made from Godey's is nice, but limits arm movement so when the boy raises his arm, the coat slips up and exposes the arm. . .

I've always thought of a sack coat as a loose unfitted coat as opposed to a frock which is fitted, with a paletot somewhere in between the two. Then of course we have military coats in shell jackets, tunics (short frock coats), sack coats which are all over the place as far as fit goes. . .sigh. Maybe we should just call them all in general sleeved outergarments?

Sarah

[Marta Vincent]

Sarah... LOL!!!!

I agree on the open jackets. Those are ok for a cool day, or to 'finish' an outfit, but they aren't warm.  Your idea of lengthening the 'saque' is fine.  And for a boy, you can make it init a simple "overcoat" style by lengthening it to just above knee length.  So it's a miniature copy of dad's greatcoat without the cape.  It can be single button or double breasted and should have a collar.

A couple of the boy's in these fashion prints have true overcoats on:  http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/ParasolQueen/Boys%20in%20Fashion%20Prints/

An Inverness is also a possibility for the boys as well. It's a sleeveless coat with a cape section over the arm & front only. http://shop.originals-by-kay.com/product.sc?productId=1263&categoryId=79 From an original pattern dated '63.

[annmaddox]

I meant to come back & post a pic long ago, but forgot.  I made my girls each a paletot from the Harriet Engler pattern.
It went together SO EASILY & quickly.  Like butter!
Here's a pic.  You can see the light blue in more detail.  We were at a dance so the jackets were on, off, on, off, on, off. 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e205/annmaddox/maddoxfamily.jpg

[Mother Dean]

Very nice, they look toasty warm in those.