Can someone help me keep my kids warmer?

[LissaWilson]

I would love for all of us to do our Christmas event as a family next month, but we had to leave today's event early because the kiddos were so cold (it was in the 40s and raining, of course). My older one I think would be okay with just a scarf and mittens added, but my little ones face and hands felt like ice and he was turning blue. Here's what they were wearing:



They both had wool trousers and canton flannel drawers, and wool socks. I think Nate (the little one) needs a bigger jacket that covers his mid-section and is cut closer  and maybe wadded with more batting along with mittens and some kind of scarf. What else can I do to keep them warmer? Nate is also wearing short pants that come to his calves so his legs were a bit exposed but they felt warm when I checked.

Sarah Jane - Didn't you make something along the lines of this hat for your boys? Do you still have the pattern you used? While I love the caps we have, they got soaked through nearly immediately and I don't think provided much warmth.

http://tinyurl.com/yjr6pmg

Any other suggestions?

[Malinda Byrne]

Would it be appropriate to add a cloak over their other jackets?  There are two examples here:  http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/godey/images/picsfashion.html  one under 1855- a young gentleman's cloak and one under 1857- boy's cloak.  Did you try the boy's cloak before, Lissa?  Or am I misremembering?
Malinda

[LissaWilson]

I tried the cloak before and it caused major movement issues with the arms. It's still too big for Nate, and I didn't think it was all that warm. Hmm.. am I looking for sweaters or something? Bosom buddies for children?

[Elizabeth]

Wool jumpers, along the lines of "fisherman" type sweaters, come immediately to mind. You don't see them in fashion engravings, but they do show up in occupational images of working class folks in working class settings. Being in a coastal area, fisherman-like accommodations seem very reasonable.

[LissaWilson]

Crikey - those are expensive!!

http://tinyurl.com/y8834ee

[Miss_Elisabeth]

I know this is a wool acrylic blend, but would something along these lines work?

http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?categoryId=56987&storeId=1&catalogId=1&langId=-1&from=SR&feat=sr

http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=1&langId=-1&catalogId=1&categoryId=56988&parentCategory=503554&cat4=503356&productId=934105&display_id=251679&feat=sr&catalog_id=TA&from=SR&rtnComp=

[LissaWilson]

Thanks Elisabeth! I like the looks of those if they get the academy stamp of approval. The kiddos can wear them for church and other things too .

Now I have more questions - if fishermen jumpers were a working class thing, what did the upper class do (since we do both, and today was a work day, but Christmas is a bit more formal)? More layers like wool vests, suits, etc.? An underbody of canton flannel or wool flannel? (by the way, we never had this problem when he was in wool petticoats - they are definitely warmer, another reason to keep boys in them longer).

What about little boys like those still in button suits? Nate's shirt is tropical weight wool, and then he had on the wool jacket (flannel weight) wadded with wool batting. I'm assuming I don't put a vest over a button suit right? Are there upper class period solutions to this dilemma?

[Ms. Jean]

Maybe this one: 

http://www.landsend.com/pp/CashmereCrewSweater~189240_5.html?bcc=y&action=order_more&sku_0=::ZTU&CM_MERCH=IDX_00003__0000000319&origin=index

rapidly ducks flying snood....

Jean
Route 66

[Malinda Byrne]

With the cloak, was it that when they moved their arms they let in cold air or that the garment was difficult to move in?  I'm asking because I was considering making one as an extra layer for DS for next season, so knowing the pitfalls would help me make an informed decision. 

What about this undershirt from the Wisconsin Historical Museum?  It's listed under the infant section, but could it still work for a toddler/ preschooler? 

Malinda

[LissaWilson]

Maybe this one: 

http://www.landsend.com/pp/CashmereCrewSweater~189240_5.html?bcc=y&action=order_more&sku_0=::ZTU&CM_MERCH=IDX_00003__0000000319&origin=index

rapidly ducks flying snood....

Jean
Route 66

Malinda - actually both. The holes are big and let cold air in (although my warm kid wore it and didn't really complain) but the main problem is that the sleeves cross over from the back and sew into the front so the kiddo can't lift their arms. My rough and tumble boys don't like that so much. I think Marta mentioned that she fixed that problem in some of her designs, so you might check with her for better ideas.

[Malinda Byrne]

Thanks, Lissa.  I'll keep investigating. 
Malinda

[Elizabeth]

Here's a later-century image of a fisherman wearing a gansey... the biggest thing I'm seeing as different from the commercial variety above is the gauge. The originals seems to generally be a fine gauge.

http://www.manorhouse.clara.net/main/sealman.jpg

This shot is of fishermen in England in 1871:
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/DSfoxfish.jpg

There seems to be a lack of ribbing at the sleeve/waist of the jumpers, which is something I've seen in other coastal occupationals. If you can hit the library for a book on the history of photography, look for those on David Octavius Hill. He was a Scottish photographer, and did a lot of documentation of the New Haven fisherfolk outside of Edinburgh in the 1840s.

Here's one of his young fellows:
http://www.sshop.arts.gla.ac.uk/jpeg/005.jpg

In the US, Southworth & Hawes (out of Boston) didn't take too many working class images, so they're a grand spot to look for more upper/upper-middle class cold weather images.

Changing out the lighter wool trousers for heavier ones, adding wool knit drawers and stockings, adding a wool vest (even over a button suit)... with the Pacific Northwest, the damp really requires wool in various forms.

[Marta Vincent]

Lissa, what about a wool overshirt?  Like a man's workshirt, but boy-sized.  a bit oversized, but with button up front placket and snug buttoned cuffs.  It could go over everything and keep the warmth in.  And if their caps are wool too, they'll be warmer.  Knitted scarves, hats & mittens are also appropriate.

[Marta Vincent]

But I must say, I like the LL Bean sweaters too.  Even in a blend and larger gauge, I think they pass.  And if you do decide to make overshirts, they can wear shirt, sweater & overshirt and be toasty!  45* and rain is nasty weather.  Cuts right through!

[LissaWilson]

Those are some great images! Thanks Liz!

I found some sweaters that are similar/smaller cabling more like the first picture Liz posted, but 100% cotton. Would that not add enough warmth to be worthwhile, or is this a case of something that can be treated like wool since finding real hand-knit wool sweaters is nearly impossible (cost prohibitive)?

If that doesn't work, I may just go with wool overshirts/more wool somehow  .

[Elizabeth]

I don't know that the cotton would help much, in the coastal damp.  Check thrift stores, though, for wooly pullies, as my husband calls them.

[lillian]

A wool vest and a longer coat and gaiters like these might work:
http://books.google.com/books?id=-YBMAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:LCCN46040247&lr=#v=onepage&q=&f=false page 183

A vest would defiantly help keep the tummy warmer. And mittens, warmer hats and scarves would all help.