Cedar Creek Thoughts?

[Stephanie Brennan]

Although Cedar Creek is not a heavy history event. I notice alot of people attend this event. This year will be an anniversary battle so turn out should be large. Personally I've always been a little put out with the civilian accommodations. I was wondering if anybody had any suggestions for improving these conditions or any other thoughts?   What could be done to make it  a more authentic experience? The event is still in planning stages so ideas can still be acted upon.
    Remember Bell Grove is not part of the battleground and the Heater House is not stable enough to work from.    (                                                                                                                Stephanie

(Elizabeth- if this is not appropriate please remove)

[NoahBriggs]

What could be done to make it  a more authentic experience?

  Don't attend.

[hanktrent]

What Noah said. I haven't been to Cedar Creek, but if it's like most mainstream events, there are lots of things that could be done to make any event more authentic, but the problem is, those attending don't want to do them. They're there for other reasons. So there's no real point in suggesting them.

Also, bigger isn't necessarily better from a civilian viewpoint, unless there are buildings to be filled. A few homeless civilians near a battlefield can usually be justified historically; a few hundred can't. So civilians have the advantage of not needing to lower their standards just to get the numbers they need to reenact a full-size battalion or whatever, and in fact can do just the opposite, and set their standards higher to cut back on numbers until a realistic amount is reached.

I'd suggest instead putting the effort into attending and improving some event that's already got some potential and is already attracting participants who've at least expressed an interest in stretched beyond the mainstream.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Stephanie Brennan]

   Can we not try to improve on what we know is horrible and turn it around for what is better?  Bushong farm was not always what it is today now look what  is happening at this mainstream event.  Heater House has that same potential but is still in a deteriorating condition. Sometimes things just need a boost in the right direction and  people with enlightened and knowledgeable ideas.   
   Remember if you don't support this type of mainstream event the park doesn't make money and historic grounds become housing developments. The Heater House becomes one less place you can reenact.
                                        Stephanie

[hanktrent]

Can we not try to improve on what we know is horrible and turn it around for what is better?

Well, "we" could, but who's "us"? 

Okay, real simple: pick a historic premise that would justify however many civilians living in the accomodations that are available, at the time of the battle. Set basic rules: no modern stuff except medical necessities, no cameras, no coolers, no modern food. During public hours, designate a few people as tour guides, who trade off greeting the visitors who walk by and orient them to the historic situation they're about to see, and lead the visitors into the civilian area.

The civilians, meanwhile, are portraying whatever is appropriate for the historic premise. They talk in character to the visitors, as the guides lead them around the area, helping with appropriate questions to bring forth the varying viewpoints of the different portrayals. The visitors can then wander off, or stay and talk with any individuals they want.

After hours, the guides become just like the other civilians and they all continue with their portrayals in character, no modern stuff, no modern gossip, no sham and glam photo sessions or visits to the funnel cake stand. Repeat the next day.

The main difficulty is figuring out a premise that would lend itself to the historic time, place, number of participants, facilities available, military actions that really can't be ignored, and would give participants a premise to keep busy while not needing to leave the immediate area, since their recreated 1860s world might or might not exist outside of their own camp .

Oh yeah, and the other little problems: the vast majority of reenactors don't want to do that, or if they do, they don't want to bother doing it at a mainstream event. If the non-participating mainstreamers intermix, they may be hostile.

If it's only about money, I think it's better to stay home and mail a check for what would otherwise be spent on gas to get there. If it's about the historic experience, I think it's better to put one's efforts into supporting organizers who already support progressive reenactors, since they'll appreciate it more.

Since I'm assuming you wouldn't have any official support from the organizers to help enforce any guidelines that would exclude normal attendees, I'm guessing this would be a carpe eventum, where civilians would register normally but separately agree to attend with you and voluntarily follow your rules? Have you attended or organized this kind of carpe eventum before? What have you found works and doesn't work?

In my experience, it totally depends on the dedication of the people involved. For example, I was part of a group that did it  at Fort Gaines in Alabama a couple years ago, a thoroughly mainstream event (even with pirates!) and it worked well, but we had our own little room in the fort, had a reason to be there as employees, had a reason not to do much work because it was Christmas, and it held together. Other times the only result has been loneliness and hostility, as those who've pledged their support decide their less-accurate friends are more interesting, and the less-accurate friends close ranks to discourage any more accuracy than they allow.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Stephanie Brennan]

The suggestion is to make accommodations that are available at the time of the battle. Why? What about portraying Cedar Creek area the week before the battle or the week after.  A more accurate and complete picture of civilian life can be portrayed this way. If the visitors are oriented to to the historic situation would this not be plausible? Allowing  more oppruntunities for civilian roles.
    And of course it is about the money--So what can be used as a good selling point for authentic reenactors? What is going to make the park want authenticity over make do?     Stephanie

[bevinmacrae]

In my experience, it can be difficult and challenging to work with parks on making more authentic civilian events. Even if the spirit is willing, they know that they can make more money by supporting the mainstream environment.

If you want to create a sort of "Island" as we do with the Bushong farm, why not give Stacy Hampton a PM? She's been doing that event for 10 years now and would be able to tell you what you are getting into.

There's also Liz's article about "value added events". I have tried several of the scenarios in there, and though it's not ideal (I don't think anything could get ideal at a mainstream event) it does help and adds to the event for both public and participant.

Now, I havn't been to Cedar Creek in a while, but last time I was there, there was a concerted effort to have a civilian living history camp separate from the military mainstreamers. I think one of the scenarios they did was to have a "school day" for children. Again, it's not ideal, but it's a step. You have to realize that at these big events, there just isn't much to do if you want to be totally accurate. Civilians just didn't go near battle fields if they could help it. But, in order to teach the public, you have to suspend some disbelief.

Obviously, you're never going to get a Westville experience from it, unless you and your friends disappear and go off on your own, but you can gain something if you're creative. Think about exactly what your goal is (to add more accurate activities to an otherwise farb event? To have an island of accuracy where you are essentially isolated from others? To teach the public, or to give yourself a better experience?) Setting that goal early on can help you decide what activities to do and how to do it.

PM me privately and I'd be happy to give you more suggestions.
Bevin

[Maggie Koenig]

Stephanie,
   I've run into this problem over the years while reenacting out in cheesehead land.  The best advice I can give you is for you, and the others interested, to do the best you can.  You will never get every civilian at the event to give up the mainstream style.  The one specific event that comes to mind was one put on by the town as a fundraiser to the local GAR Hall.  We camped in a lovely local park, had a large dance like thing on the local main street, had a ladies tea on the lawn of the local old victorian home and we all had a grand old time.  Yes, we had to live with inaccurate things and people around us but we still had fun, enjoyed the people we spoke to and supported the cause.  On your end you can make an effort to dress as accurately as possible, dial down the camping area to make it as unobtrusive as possible and perhaps speak with the event organizers about having an "authentic" camping area for civilian set aside.  For this year I'd say live with that, then speak with those of like mind with yourself and discuss ideas for next year.  Sometimes drastic changes need a lot of time to get ironed out.  Mostly, do NOT give up going to the event or give up on the possibilities the event could offer.  Authenticity does not need to live in a world all by itself, it can happen right next to the people that are wearing polyester ball gowns in the middle of the day if you want to.  The last bit of advice I will give on the situation is just get along with the people around you even if you don't agree with what they have on or what they are saying.  Some of the nicest, most helpful and caring people I ever went to events with in Wisconsin were people that pretty much camped (very heavily) in funny clothes.  

[hanktrent]

The suggestion is to make accommodations that are available at the time of the battle. Why? What about portraying Cedar Creek area the week before the battle or the week after.  A more accurate and complete picture of civilian life can be portrayed this way.

Well, I don't know if I'd say "more accurate," because the week before, they'd be living in their houses, and the week after, they'd be repairing things, nursing the wounded, finishing up burying the dead. None of those can really be portrayed any more or less accurately by a hundred civilians in an empty field, than the time of the battle, but it's certainly a possible choice.

But maybe when you're saying more accurate, you're picturing something different than I am, like craft and cooking demonstrations and such, in front of tents?

So what can be used as a good selling point for authentic reenactors?

Again, what events have you been to where this has worked, and where "authentic reenactors," however one defines that, have supported it?

There are all different levels and types of "authentic reenactors," so I think it makes more sense to target a particular type. Maybe what they call "authenticists" is what would work? I mean people who are into accurate clothes and specific tasks or parts of accurate impressions, but don’t worry about accuracy overall, so they're cool with camping in mainstream-type tents, lowering their accuracy "after hours," bopping over to the sutlers for hobby shopping, hanging out snapping pictures, chatting about the internet, but will bring really accurate clothes and convey really accurate information to the public and do really accurate specific tasks, during the times that those things are needed. That's the kind of "authentic reenactors" that I've run into most often when I've attended mainstream events, and besides some occasional snarkiness at the mainstreamers who aren't up to their standards, they fit in pretty well, because the framework of a mainstream event fits what they want to do.

Honestly, interest in overall functional authenticity is so rare that I think most reenactors haven't even experienced an event that's organized to encourage it, and thus don't realize how most events are arranged to actively prevent it.

I'll bow out now, since I can't think of any other suggestions. And honestly, I'd rather see the effort put in to supporting organizers who already support more authenticty.

As a last thought, here's a discussion where I asked how to attend a mainstream event and be accepted without also deliberately trying to be less accurate. It's on a forum that's supposed to encourage "common ground" between the different approaches to the hobby: http://commonground.aceboard.com/249612-4910-6994-0-Andersonville-Loudonville.htm
The thread gets off topic after the first five posts. Unfortunately, nobody really gave a good answer, but I'm still planning on going, doing what I'd do at a more accurate event, and hoping for the best. But those are some of the issues that would make me hesitant to attend, fearing a catch-22 where people are told to come and be "accurate," but what they actually mean is come and deliberately be less accurate than you could be under the circusmtances so you'll fit comfortably with their mental picture of what reenacting is.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Elizabeth]

Another thing to factor in: what does the organizer expect of participants? If you don't have organizer permissions and support, setting up even a small "carpe eventum" (seize the event) becomes very difficult.

If you *do* have support from the Powers That Be, then I'd look at gathering a core of interested folks, requesting a designated, somewhat separated but still easily accessible spot, and working from there. It may not be possible to run a small, coherent scenario at this particular event (too much distraction, not enough physical stuff to work with, like a real house), but you could start adding some more history-heavy elements to the event. As Hank mentioned, be prepared for hostility from those who like it the way it's been, and don't want any changes at all. Dang, there I go with the Little Black Raincloud again. LOL

[bevinmacrae]

Yup, what Liz said! You have to be prepared to accept some things you can't change. For instance, I was recently asked to attend the Old Bedford Village event later this month as a lecturer as well as helping with some of the planned scenarios that would be going on. After a chat with the organizer, I learned that she thinks that the type of reenactor that participates in this event typically has not much in the way of accuracy going on, but believes they would like to learn. With that thought in mind, she plans on activities both for participants and for public to help enrich the event as a whole. Will we be able to snag a house and "live" out of it for the weekend? Not this year, but we can fly kites, play lawn games, and reenact a bread riot. Sure, it's not ideal or even logical that one would be involved in a bread riot one hour and then be happily flying a kite the next, but I can get my foot in the door, start some wheels turning, and perhaps down the road there will be a true late-war feeling pervading the event. It will infuse a bit of fresh ideas into the event, hopefully provide a few lectures to help the reenactors improve, and a few scenarios to get the public thinking and asking questions. Am I aware that the people participating in the bread riot scenario likely don't have a clue what the real rioter's looked or acted like? Yes, but the goal is to give them a positive 1st person experience that they can build on and refine later with help. I can overlook farbitate to achieve that goal.

So the goal is to bring more activities for both reenactors and spectators, but not to make the whole event as authentic as possible. Will I see Snoods of Doom? Sure, but i know that. I can live with that, and work with that. As Liz has said before, this would be an event that's not "for me" but for the enrichment of "others". Westville I looked at as a "for me" type of event, and the public benefiting was a nice side effect. Then of course there are events "for THEM (public)" like school presentations and lectures in historical societies.

If you are operating without event staff support, but still want to inject a bit of authenticity, try things that won't butt heads with other scheduled activities or off-limits areas. Like picnics, games with children, cooking demonstrations, spinning, knitting, other needle arts. That way you can pack up easily if you need to move, but you can still be doing something other than shopping on sutler row. It also doesn't require alot of forethought or planning or coordinating with others. Sure, even then, it's not accurate that a woman is cooking outside a tent, but, lacking a house and hearth to do so, it's what's available. During your demonstration, acknowledge that you would be doing this at home over a stove, but that's not available right now. People still get to see how food was made. Chances are, you won't get bugged by others, unless you try to interact with them, and you may even get complements.

 Example: Last year I wasn't able to contact the organizers at Hale Farm to ask if doing a croquet demo would be ok. But I figured that, if it wasn't, they would just say something once we got there and we could go from there. I figured it was unobtrusive enough and was set up out of the way enough. So we got there, and started playing, inviting the public to participate. And what happened? It acted like a magnet for progressive reenactors, and a children-of-spectators magnet. And then the event organizer came over and really liked that we had "taken the initiative" to do something and were getting the public involved. It could have gone badly, I suppose. She could have said we were poking unwanted holes in the grass. If so, we would have respected that and packed it up (so have a back-up plan!) but we thought that taking the risk was better than wandering in a comatose state around the park with nothing to do.

Of course, each event is different! But I'm sure you could do something.
Bevin

[Susan Peden]

It is indeed tricky, at best, to try to be accurate at events like Cedar Creek.  Combatants also have trouble with accuracy in camp, and when you are a civilian attached to a combat group like I am, you have to figure out a reason for being in camp.  I think there have been some good suggestions.  Going to Cedar Creek is a worthwhile experience for a number of reasons. 
 1.  You get to be on an actual battlefield and feel the place.
 2.  You get to be a spot of authenticity, and people DO notice that, both the public and your comardes.
 3.  You get the idea of what is was like for thousands of men to be on the field-
      3 years ago I attended the 140th (?) anniversary of 1st Manassas.  The first day I stayed in camp portraying the Provost Officer's      wife.  A plausible impression.  The second day I went to the spectators area to watch the battle.  I was not far from the Union Cavalry when they formed up the square and the Confederates attacked.  (Bear with me.  There is a purpose in this discourse.)  As I watched the progression of the event I noticed how detached I felt from the action until.... the Confederate infantry came screaming across the hill.  The hair stood up on the back of my neck and I wanted (dress and all) to run out screaming and join in the fray!   
     Here's the point, so many things I have wondered about all came together in that one moment.
     Like, how the "mob" or group phenomena works, like how you could rush into oncoming ordinance, like why perfectly sane   people in ordinary life can become killers of their neighbors and relatives.

So, I say, "go".  Help improve your spot in the event and set the example.  Teach others.  Take it for what it is, an opportunity to meet some really interesting folks, do some shopping at the sutlers, learn some stuff from others and....teach some stuff to others.  And sit for a few moments in the quiet mist of the morning and feel the spirits of those who never left the field. 

[jennifer tyndall]

So, I say, "go".  Help improve your spot in the event and set the example.  Teach others.  Take it for what it is, an opportunity to meet some really interesting folks, do some shopping at the sutlers, learn some stuff from others and....teach some stuff to others.  And sit for a few moments in the quiet mist of the morning and feel the spirits of those who never left the field. 

Well said Susan!

[Susan Peden]

Jennifer, thanks.  I am not a long time reenactor.  This is my 8th season.  When I started out I had the advantage of being involved with a woman who was really into authenticity.  Not all of her advice was totally correct, but none of it was wrong.  I also work in a history museum with a pretty good collection of women's 19th century (and other eras) clothing, so I can get a good view of the stuff.  The long and the short of it though is that teaching and learning is what it is all about.

Cheers to all who give their time and knowledge.

Susan

[Robin C]

I agree with Susan.  Most people walking by will take note of your correctness, even if they don't visit.  The quietness of example can help most improve.

Robin

[Stephanie Brennan]

Thanks for all the good advice. I always have a good time at Cedar Creek as do my children. Tomorrow will be the day they start to plan layout. I am hoping for small things like a more cohesive civilian area or a separate area for those who like to do civilian impressions ( not based on convenience to sutlers and car) My personal favorite spot is close to the stream and trees, Away from the crowds. Maybe some suggested individual activities like relic hunting (aka scavenger hunt),picnics, readings, pressing plants, watercolors, clay, penmenship, drawing,  scrap books, and of course mayapple toss.
    One of the problems Cedar Creek faces is units with mixed genders. The men solve this by individual groups. A mixed camp and soldier only dogtent camp are offered.  Another solution I've seen work well- Is no women in camps except soldier impressions. With this type solution there is a middle ground. The civilians are camped in between the two opposing sides. Allowing units and their civilians to camp approximate to one another. Soldiers then must decide  rather to visit civilian village or not, but if your cooking chances are they will show up. I also like the idea suggested of orienting visitors to what is going on- Is this something you would see in the field or is it something that is being done under the best of circumstances offered?
     I've seen some awesome impressions at these large events recently. As civilians have entered the hobby and strive to be more accurate, I'm hoping that a niche or some outlet can be used to bring these impressions out to the forefront. While authenticity is questionable at these large events there are still those moments that take your breath away.   Stephanie

[Donna Rowan]

Bevin, having been at Hale last summer I want to thank you for the croquet game. It's things like that that do add a little extra to an event. Hale is one of those events that give a person a chance to just as Liz said "carpe eventum".Honestly I think more of us ought to look for the chance to do some things like that. Use Your imagination. Put the "act" back in reenacting. Pull up a box and become a speaker.. Talk about the war...talk about the price of tea in china if it suits you. Ladies, pull out a copy of Godeys  and start up a conversation with other ladies about the fashions...start a game of impromptu tag. That that sort of thing. Don't wait for "someone" to do it. You do it. Stephanie  I once went to an event where you had to have a pass signed and given to you by the Union Commander to even get into the soldier's camp. Anyone found walking around without there pass was escorted out of camp.I dont know if it would work on a large event though. We all get tired of going to events where there is a battle and a meal and if your lucky a dance,and nothing between but walking around. But rather than grouse about it we can do something about it.

[Susan Peden]

Huzzah, Donna!

[Robin C]

Exactly! That is why my husband and I do a few local historical craft shows and demos, rather than attend a lot of reenactments.  We get to attend the show, dress period appropriate, demo a period craft with resources in tow, and best of all, talk to hundreds of people not yet in the "hobbie".   We are selective as to what shows we attend--as to the event should be selective of their vendors.  Don't invite vendors who don't meet your specs.   

We had set up over Memorial Day with a  local reenactment group.  Most of the people that attended the area stopped by our tent, then walked on past the rest of the group.  The reenactors were talking amongst themselves and did not make the visitors their first priority. When a present day civilian walks by with a curious, questioning look, one should take the initiative to start a conversation.  Our ancestors of that era would surely chat with someone who drove up to their house. You may even be able to recruit for your unit.

Yes we all get tired of saying the same things over and over, but with a little research of local history, a person can get some real touching stories from the public.  Also, some keys of reference that may improve your own persona--that might mot be every time, but it can be as fun as you want to make it.

[hanktrent]

Okay, I get it. What you-all are talking about sounds exactly like what the "authenticists" in my previous post like to do. Definitely, aim for those kinds of reenactors. They'll love it.

Those like me who want an opportunity to be more accurate than that... well, not so much. As I said, I think a lot of reenactors don't even realize what's available at some events, and therefore think that "authenticists" are as good as it gets.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com