Jessamyn
Scribblor Infinitus
Offline
Posts: 2904
|
 |
« Reply #60 on: April 19, 2009, 05:05:54 PM » |
|
(I was posting at the same time as shawnra...) Nectarines are natural sports of peaches - the smooth skin is due to a recessive gene that pops up periodically, so they've been around a long time (they go back a loooong way in China and were apparently introduced to Europe in the 16th or 17th century). But according to this site, until crossbred in the 1940s they were usually small and fragile, not suitable for shipping, so they tended to be strictly a local product. (I've been planting a high-density mini-orchard the last couple of years, so I've really been interested in this stuff!) Anyway, the upshot seems to be that you should only use them in areas in which they can be grown, and then choose small examples.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
mmescher
|
 |
« Reply #61 on: April 19, 2009, 05:36:08 PM » |
|
I think the post from Jessamyn somewhat answered the question. It appears the varieties grown in the mid-nineteenth century were smaller than what you would ordinarily get today. But the question remains, how widespread were they? Would they be a great rarity or something that most people were familiar with?
And regarding growing peaches and nectarines on the same tree, it is probably possible. However, it isn't possible genetically because whatever the genetic makeup of the tree, all natural growth on the tree will have the same genetic makeup. It would be possible for one tree to bear both peaches and nectarines only by grafting twigs of one of the varieties of fruits onto the branches of the host tree, e.g., nectarine tree twigs grafted onto a peach tree. Then the grafts will supply nutrients but not genetic material to this foreign twig. In much the same way you used to be able to buy apple trees that bore five different kinds of apples.
Michael Mescher
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
LissaWilson
Scribblor Infinitus
Offline
Posts: 1484
|
 |
« Reply #62 on: April 19, 2009, 05:56:15 PM » |
|
What kinds of storage options for produce would have been common? For example, what kinds of fruits (if any) & veggies could have been stored throughout the winter in a root cellar or something? I ask because we eat seasonally with a CSA from a local farmer, and we are still getting apples from last fall that were in the cooler. Granted, that wasn't an option then, but does anyone know how long apples could last in some kind of storage? Also, I have no idea if they are heirloom varieties, but we are getting apples from eastern WA that are in season now. It seems to me if you eat seasonally, you find effective ways to store food for as long as possible because you know winter is coming. Eating seasonally has definitely changed how we view foods.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Heidi Hollister
Scribblor Infinitus
Offline
Posts: 1951
|
 |
« Reply #63 on: April 19, 2009, 06:13:24 PM » |
|
We stored apples in Utah in a big pile in a room. They stayed just fine through the winter. It wasn't a cooler at all, just a big somewhat cool room. There's no reason why they couldn't store apples in a cellar with similar effects.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Twin Owls Workshops Fun Day Smarter.
|
|
|
|
Amiane Baker
Guest
|
 |
« Reply #64 on: April 19, 2009, 07:15:28 PM » |
|
I think the post from Jessamyn somewhat answered the question. It appears the varieties grown in the mid-nineteenth century were smaller than what you would ordinarily get today. But the question remains, how widespread were they? Would they be a great rarity or something that most people were familiar with?Â
And regarding growing peaches and nectarines on the same tree, it is probably possible. However, it isn't possible genetically because whatever the genetic makeup of the tree, all natural growth on the tree will have the same genetic makeup. It would be possible for one tree to bear both peaches and nectarines only by grafting twigs of one of the varieties of fruits onto the branches of the host tree, e.g., nectarine tree twigs grafted onto a peach tree. Then the grafts will supply nutrients but not genetic material to this foreign twig.  In much the same way you used to be able to buy apple trees that bore five different kinds of apples.
Michael Mescher
Michael, In regards to the above, I believe you will find this article interesting: http://books.google.com/books?id=WgYVAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA265&lpg=RA1-PA265&dq=natural+%22sports%22+in+peach+trees&source=bl&ots=x67KIXWTUK&sig=Vj3nEL0T2UVzqMj0IBfvopJ6WzQ&hl=en&ei=yNDrScv1KpfKMuDCleEF&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5 There are probably numerous other sources, that was just the first one I found. Lissa, Different varieties of apples have different "storage lives". Softer apples, do not store, and are ususallly "put up" in some way. You will have to check that out. But there were lots of ways of preserving applles--especially dried, cidar, and vinegar. Some varities do rather well in the celler--some are even referred to as "winter apples". http://www.sln.potsdam.ny.us/apples.html It describes some of the uses of different varities and a little bit about the varities. It doesn't specifiy how old each varity is, but still useful info. The location has a lot to do with what will grow and how they were used, stored, etc. You are in Washington State aren't you? This link might help identify varities for your state http://mtvernon.wsu.edu/fruithorticulture/OldApples.html. Obviously some of these are newer and some are older varities, but it could give you a spring board of varity names. Google the specific names and get a history on how old they are. Also, the local county extension office can be a great resource. Ask for local orchards and also ask if they have a resident expert on apples and apple trees. Let them know you are interested in older varities--some are still being grown. If they don't know the information, they usually know where it can be found. Hope that helps. Amiane
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
hanktrent
Senior Research
Scribblor Infinitus
Offline
Posts: 1170
|
 |
« Reply #65 on: April 19, 2009, 08:25:15 PM » |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Amiane Baker
Guest
|
 |
« Reply #66 on: April 19, 2009, 09:05:11 PM » |
|
Oooh!    Looks like fun. Thanks for posting. -Amiane
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Joanna Jones
Scribblor Infinitus
Offline
Posts: 3736
|
 |
« Reply #67 on: April 20, 2009, 05:29:46 AM » |
|
Caffeinated beverages also dehydrate.
Actually, recent research has disproved that common belief. In people who commonly consume 1 to 2 beverages with caffeine per day, the body compensates after only a couple of days, and the net loss of liquid is no more than with plain water. The diuretic effect is found only in people who do not normally consume caffeine, who then have a beverage with caffeine in it, and even then, the diuretic effect wore off after only 2-3 days of moderate (1-4 drinks per day) consumption of caffeine. Apparently, all the previous studies have been done on people who abstained from caffeine for days before the test. No one looked to see if the diuretic effect lasted. http://advance.uconn.edu/2002/020722/02072207.htmhttp://www.ific.org/foodinsight/2002/ja/caffdehydnbfi402.cfmResearching generally held beliefs that have no scientific backing (myth-busting) is a hobby of mine. And I LOVE iced tea. Joanna
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
anb717
|
 |
« Reply #68 on: April 20, 2009, 07:31:57 AM » |
|
Bringing period foods is a 'work in progress' for me, but here's what has been successful with my kiddos so far:
Shortbread cookies. They can't get enough of them. I covered a large box with brown paper and put the cookies in the box between layers of paper.Â
Gingerbread cookies. Same box....they finished those after all the shortbread was gone.
Loaves of wheat bread- this is one I probably need to work on..... . I just use a modern recipe for the wheat bread...I'm too chicken to try the recipe from one of my cookbook reprints.
Fruit in season- again, there has been a learning curve here, ie: don't put plums,cherries or nectarines at the bottom of the bag (bad idea)....no apples in May....stuff like that.
We tried summer sausage, but the kids HATED it, and we ended up throwing it away. Someone suggested salami- is that correct? I really have no idea if it is, but my kids certainly like the stuff.....
I think I'll add hard boiled eggs this year, because they DO like those.
Vicki, it sounds like you're off to a really good start on what are "correct" foods to eat at a reenactment for your region an your family. Regarding the salami...I was always told that it was okay because it's a type of sausage and sausage was easily (and in some areas, CONSTANTLY) available. It doesn't need to be refridgerated until it's been cut, so if you bring a small length of it that you can cut on site you should have no problems with it. If you to make sure the kids have a protein (hey, they're kids running around--they need a balanced diet!), cold fried chicken like you wanted to try is great, ham works out fine, as does cold roasted chicken. Cheese is a great source of protein and works well when making a light cold meal. Even with the use of a modern wheat bread recipe, you're on the right track! It could be worse--you're not doling out slice of wonder bread;) A lot of the historic recipes for breads seem really odd to our modern eyes and tastebuds, but you never know until you give them a shot. Find the least "weird" that you think your kids and try. Let them help out. That might make them more motivated to try it. Think about what foods the kids like right now. How can you reinterpret those to life in the 1860s? You have the idea down really well and I think you'll find foods that work out with the kiddos just fine:)
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Well behaved women rarely make history. --Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Abby in the Midwest
|
|
|
Jessamyn
Scribblor Infinitus
Offline
Posts: 2904
|
 |
« Reply #69 on: April 20, 2009, 07:48:15 AM » |
|
I think the post from Jessamyn somewhat answered the question. It appears the varieties grown in the mid-nineteenth century were smaller than what you would ordinarily get today. But the question remains, how widespread were they? Would they be a great rarity or something that most people were familiar with?Â
And regarding growing peaches and nectarines on the same tree, it is probably possible. However, it isn't possible genetically because whatever the genetic makeup of the tree, all natural growth on the tree will have the same genetic makeup. It would be possible for one tree to bear both peaches and nectarines only by grafting twigs of one of the varieties of fruits onto the branches of the host tree, e.g., nectarine tree twigs grafted onto a peach tree. Then the grafts will supply nutrients but not genetic material to this foreign twig.  In much the same way you used to be able to buy apple trees that bore five different kinds of apples.
Michael Mescher
The factoid about nectarines and peaches growing on the same tree is widely quoted, even though it doesn't seem to make sense genetically. I've been scrounging around trying to find a scientific discussion of it, and cannot, so I think it's urban legend; but I will say that it was widely believed to be true in the 19th century. Darwin even references it! For example, in addition to Amiane's link, here is a reference in the 1863 Transactions of the Illinois State Horticultural Society. It's possible that the idea arose from the fact that there are various in-between fruits possible, and in fact the peach has a lot in common with the almond and can be crossed with it. As to commonality of nectarines, This 1824 book on growing fruit trees reiterates the "nectarines growing on peach trees" idea and then goes on to list 29 named varieties of nectarine, of which 13 are described in detail. Admittedly, this example is English. There are several references from the late 18th and 19th centuries to Southern growers who lump mentions of nectarines in with mentions of peaches, although the peaches get the bulk of the attention (being, as I said before, the commercial crop). Jefferson grew nectarines at Monticello, and Washington did at Mount Vernon. I found an 1844 record of a South Carolina farmer buying trees from a North Carolina grower, specifically referencing pears and nectarines. In 1880 (post-period, I realize) we have, in Sacramento County Biographies, "The orchard is to-day well stocked with the finest varieties of cherries, apples, nectarines, &c." Here is a reference from 1861 in New York to dealing with pest problems in apricot, nectarine, and plum trees. In the 1850 Genessee Farmer, similar references to dealing with pests in nectarine trees. You get the idea. Not everybody would be eating them, but they were apparently very familiar.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Stephanie Brennan
Scribblor Infinitus
Offline
Posts: 1080
|
 |
« Reply #70 on: April 20, 2009, 08:40:52 AM » |
|
Department of Agriculture report 1865- The apricot and the nectarine are budded both on peach and plum stocks; but owing to the destructive attacks of the curculio, we seldom obtain a perfect crop of either fruit, unless when grown under glass. Sounds like they may not be easy to obtain in 1865 Stephanie
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jessamyn
Scribblor Infinitus
Offline
Posts: 2904
|
 |
« Reply #71 on: April 20, 2009, 09:26:25 AM » |
|
Curculio is a Northeastern and Canadian problem primarily, which would explain why there are more references in Southern and Western areas to orcharding nectarines, and more references in Eastern publications to growing them in pots and under glass. So probably they were more of a specialty item in the Northeast.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
southerngal
Guest
|
 |
« Reply #72 on: April 29, 2009, 09:35:23 AM » |
|
Just some other elements to remember/think about with cold lunches.
If you have beverages, alcoholic beverages are diuretics which will dehydrate you further after they've refreshed you. Caffeinated beverages also dehydrate.
I see a lot of jerky show up at events but was jerky used much in the East? Did many people make it? It is great now in all seasons because it doesn't require refrigeration but is it reenactorism?
A post mentioned nectarines. How common were they as a fruit in the mid-nineteenth century?  A nectarine looks nothing like a peach. And while commenting on varieties of fruits, if you bring apples please leave red delicious at home. They are an obvious, well-known modern variety to modern participants and spectators and weren't a recognized variety until post-war.
Michael Mescher
Dehydration is one of the oldest methods of food preservation known to man. Primitive civilizations throughout the world first dehydrated grasses, berries, roots, meat and fish by putting them in the sun to dry. Dehydration allowed man to exist through long periods of drought or freezing winters when food was scarce. The high nutritional value and light weight of dehydrated food allowed early peoples to travel and explore, hunting additional food sources. The history of dehydrated food is as diverse as early civilizations. The Phoenicians and fishing settlements of the Mediterranean dried fish in the open air, the Chinese tea leaves, while various dehydrated foods including grains were found in ancient Egyptian tombs. Native American tribes preserved fruit, vegetables and meat, which were stored for leaner times, and showed the Pilgrims how to dry food. By 1795, the French developed the first dehydrator designed to regulate drying conditions and mechanize food saving. This French unit successfully dried fruit and vegetables at a controlled temperature with a continuous circulating flow of air. Source: wikipedia; subject food dehydration A Mayflower Meal On the Mayflower the Pilgrims ate hard tack (dried biscuits), dired oats, dried beans, peas, barley, cheese and salted pork or beef. They drank water or beer carried in huge casks. Source: http://tinyurl.com/c42kc9 For thousands of years, man has sun dried foods to sustain him in off season periods. The following are some recorded examples of the very early application of sun drying. As far back as 20,000 BC meat was cut into strips and sun dried in Russia. Around 10,000 BC salt was produced by sun drying seawater. American Indians made dried mashed potatoes about 3500 BC. The potatoes were frozen overnight and rampled to express out the juices. This process was repeated before the mash was dried. In ancient Egypt (2800-2300 BC) fruit such as apples, grapes and apricots were sun dried. Around 500 BC, dry salted fish was produced. Tea was dried in India in 300-400 AD. IN the period 710-785, AD large quantities of sun-dried foods were produced in Japan including fruits, vegetables, fish and shellfish, meat and poultry. The dried products were stored in NOrway. The Mongolian army used sun dried powdered milk in 1240 AD. Around 1650 AD colonists in North America dried boiled Indian corn over fires. In 1780 AD the first patent on vegetable drying was taken out in America. The vegetables were boiled in sald water and kept for 20-30 hours. The quality was poor. In 1795 AD in France, sliced vegetables were dried in air at 40 degrees C pressed, and sealed in foil. Enzyme activity occured and vitamin c was destroyed. Dried vegetables were shipped ot the British troops during the Crimean war (1854-56) and were also used by the Union troops in the American Civil War (1861-65). In 1865 A patent for producing dried egg was taken out. In 1872, Samuel Perry took out a patent on "Improvements in Drying and Concentrating Liquid Substances by Atomizing, ie spray drying/concentrating, Dried vegetables, produced in Canada were used by British troops during the Boer war (1899-1902). Source: http://tinyurl.com/cx8ka9I found a link with good old recipes. http://tinyurl.com/csqtgc Good luck, Margie
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Heidi Hollister
Scribblor Infinitus
Offline
Posts: 1951
|
 |
« Reply #73 on: April 29, 2009, 09:58:45 AM » |
|
And don't forget that Lewis and Clark took "portable soup" with them, which was basically a mixture of vegetables and oxtail bones boiled almost dry til it turns into a jelly, then the fat is scraped off and it'll keep indefinitely. Kind of the forerunner of bullion cubes we use today.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Twin Owls Workshops Fun Day Smarter.
|
|
|
vmescher
Senior Research
Veteran Scribbler
Offline
Posts: 702
|
 |
« Reply #74 on: April 29, 2009, 11:51:11 AM » |
|
Dehydration is one of the oldest methods of food preservation known to man. Primitive civilizations throughout the world first dehydrated grasses, berries, roots, meat and fish by putting them in the sun to dry. Dehydration allowed man to exist through long periods of drought or freezing winters when food was scarce. The high nutritional value and light weight of dehydrated food allowed early peoples to travel and explore, hunting additional food sources. The history of dehydrated food is as diverse as early civilizations. The Phoenicians and fishing settlements of the Mediterranean dried fish in the open air, the Chinese tea leaves, while various dehydrated foods including grains were found in ancient Egyptian tombs. Native American tribes preserved fruit, vegetables and meat, which were stored for leaner times, and showed the Pilgrims how to dry food. By 1795, the French developed the first dehydrator designed to regulate drying conditions and mechanize food saving. This French unit successfully dried fruit and vegetables at a controlled temperature with a continuous circulating flow of air. Source: wikipedia; subject food dehydration A Mayflower Meal On the Mayflower the Pilgrims ate hard tack (dried biscuits), dired oats, dried beans, peas, barley, cheese and salted pork or beef. They drank water or beer carried in huge casks. Source: http://tinyurl.com/c42kc9 For thousands of years, man has sun dried foods to sustain him in off season periods. The following are some recorded examples of the very early application of sun drying. As far back as 20,000 BC meat was cut into strips and sun dried in Russia. Around 10,000 BC salt was produced by sun drying seawater. American Indians made dried mashed potatoes about 3500 BC. The potatoes were frozen overnight and rampled to express out the juices. This process was repeated before the mash was dried. In ancient Egypt (2800-2300 BC) fruit such as apples, grapes and apricots were sun dried. Around 500 BC, dry salted fish was produced. Tea was dried in India in 300-400 AD. IN the period 710-785, AD large quantities of sun-dried foods were produced in Japan including fruits, vegetables, fish and shellfish, meat and poultry. The dried products were stored in NOrway. The Mongolian army used sun dried powdered milk in 1240 AD. Around 1650 AD colonists in North America dried boiled Indian corn over fires. In 1780 AD the first patent on vegetable drying was taken out in America. The vegetables were boiled in sald water and kept for 20-30 hours. The quality was poor. In 1795 AD in France, sliced vegetables were dried in air at 40 degrees C pressed, and sealed in foil. Enzyme activity occured and vitamin c was destroyed. Dried vegetables were shipped ot the British troops during the Crimean war (1854-56) and were also used by the Union troops in the American Civil War (1861-65). In 1865 A patent for producing dried egg was taken out. In 1872, Samuel Perry took out a patent on "Improvements in Drying and Concentrating Liquid Substances by Atomizing, ie spray drying/concentrating, Dried vegetables, produced in Canada were used by British troops during the Boer war (1899-1902). Source:  http://tinyurl.com/cx8ka9 I found a link with good old recipes. http://tinyurl.com/csqtgc Good luck, Margie When discussing a process such as food preservation, it might be best to use primary sources for references rather than use modern sources. For information on 19th century on food preservation, find out how they did something using period cookbooks instead of using secondary sources. The Feeding America site or Google Books will give you more than enough period cookbooks and recipes. Although I realize that this is a secondary source, people might want to check it out for an overview of period food preservation methods. There is an article on www.raggedsoldier.com in the archived section of Virginia's Veranda. It is titled, "In a Pickle! Types of Food Preservation in the 19th Century."  It has a complete bibliography with numerous primary sources. Also, in the June 1854 issue of Godey's there is an excellent period article on food preservation, titled, "Food Preservation." It is a primary reference and shows what processes and technology was available in 1854 and what was being used.Â
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 02:01:37 PM by vmescher »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Paris-Lynne Graham
|
 |
« Reply #75 on: April 29, 2009, 03:31:28 PM » |
|
Lissa, we recently had an Agricultural Almanac from 1888 out from the library. This is, obviously, 20+ years past "our" time period but it listed many ways to keep apples and said they could be preserved for up to 2 years using the methods described. I've not tried it, but it seems like it could be done. A lot of care and attention were needed when picking the apples to be sure they did not bruise at all and then one of the methods had you hang them by their stems in a root cellar. I don't remember the other methods off the top of my head.
HTH, Paris
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
mmescher
|
 |
« Reply #76 on: April 29, 2009, 05:01:17 PM » |
|
Dehydration is one of the oldest methods of food preservation known to man. Primitive civilizations throughout the world first dehydrated grasses, berries, roots, meat and fish by putting them in the sun to dry. Dehydration allowed man to exist through long periods of drought or freezing winters when food was scarce. The high nutritional value and light weight of dehydrated food allowed early peoples to travel and explore, hunting additional food sources. The history of dehydrated food is as diverse as early civilizations. The Phoenicians and fishing settlements of the Mediterranean dried fish in the open air, the Chinese tea leaves, while various dehydrated foods including grains were found in ancient Egyptian tombs. Native American tribes preserved fruit, vegetables and meat, which were stored for leaner times, and showed the Pilgrims how to dry food. By 1795, the French developed the first dehydrator designed to regulate drying conditions and mechanize food saving. This French unit successfully dried fruit and vegetables at a controlled temperature with a continuous circulating flow of air. Source: wikipedia; subject food dehydration A Mayflower Meal On the Mayflower the Pilgrims ate hard tack (dried biscuits), dired oats, dried beans, peas, barley, cheese and salted pork or beef. They drank water or beer carried in huge casks. Source: http://tinyurl.com/c42kc9 For thousands of years, man has sun dried foods to sustain him in off season periods. The following are some recorded examples of the very early application of sun drying. As far back as 20,000 BC meat was cut into strips and sun dried in Russia. Around 10,000 BC salt was produced by sun drying seawater. American Indians made dried mashed potatoes about 3500 BC. The potatoes were frozen overnight and rampled to express out the juices. This process was repeated before the mash was dried. In ancient Egypt (2800-2300 BC) fruit such as apples, grapes and apricots were sun dried. Around 500 BC, dry salted fish was produced. Tea was dried in India in 300-400 AD. IN the period 710-785, AD large quantities of sun-dried foods were produced in Japan including fruits, vegetables, fish and shellfish, meat and poultry. The dried products were stored in NOrway. The Mongolian army used sun dried powdered milk in 1240 AD. Around 1650 AD colonists in North America dried boiled Indian corn over fires. In 1780 AD the first patent on vegetable drying was taken out in America. The vegetables were boiled in sald water and kept for 20-30 hours. The quality was poor. In 1795 AD in France, sliced vegetables were dried in air at 40 degrees C pressed, and sealed in foil. Enzyme activity occured and vitamin c was destroyed. Dried vegetables were shipped ot the British troops during the Crimean war (1854-56) and were also used by the Union troops in the American Civil War (1861-65). In 1865 A patent for producing dried egg was taken out. In 1872, Samuel Perry took out a patent on "Improvements in Drying and Concentrating Liquid Substances by Atomizing, ie spray drying/concentrating, Dried vegetables, produced in Canada were used by British troops during the Boer war (1899-1902). Source:  http://tinyurl.com/cx8ka9 I found a link with good old recipes. http://tinyurl.com/csqtgc Margie In my original question, I asked about whether jerky was used in the East, whether many people were making it, or whether it is a reenactorism. While the secondary sources cited above contain general information about drying food, they really don't shed light on my questions and, to take it one step further, whether we should leave the jerky at home for reenactments. The wikipedia clip subject doesn't contain any references so we can't check to find out where they obtained their information to explore further. In the source about the "Mayflower Meal", in the text on the website the author interprets salted pork and beef as being dried beef -- a leap that to me seems a bit unreasonable for a sea voyage when your provisions will be exposed to constant high humidity. Unfortunately, the bibliography is missing from the clip of the book on food preservation so we can't determine what the authors references were. The clip from Backpacker magazine claims that the recipe is 150 years old but I didn't see a source cited so we are left to wonder how the author knew the age of the recipe. So the question remains, does anyone know of primary documentation for making jerky or similar products? Does anyone know, with primary documentation, if it was made commercially? If period recipes aren't available, are there any diary entries that mention eating jerky? Absent evidence that jerky was available, in my opinion we should not bring jerky to events because, if someone sees you eat it, its presence is an implicit statement that it was used in the situation being portrayed. Another post asked about salami. There may have been some salami available but the Italian population was so small it would have been severely limited the availability of an ethnic type of sausage. Just as samples of the 1860 census data for states likely to have Italian populations, New York had 1,862 residents born in Italy from a total population of 3,881,000; New Jersey had 105 from a population of 672,000; Massachusetts had 371 from a population of 1,231,000; and Rhode Island had 32 from a population of 175,000. Looking for another type of sausage would be recommended. Michael Mescher
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Paula
Scribblor Infinitus
Offline
Posts: 1470
|
 |
« Reply #77 on: April 29, 2009, 05:06:27 PM » |
|
How about good ole Pennsylvania Lebanon Bologna? Does anyone know if that would have been "period?" Love that stuff. Too bad no one seems to carry it here in Oregon.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
hanktrent
Senior Research
Scribblor Infinitus
Offline
Posts: 1170
|
 |
« Reply #78 on: April 29, 2009, 05:41:01 PM » |
|
So the question remains, does anyone know of primary documentation for making jerky or similar products? Does anyone know, with primary documentation, if it was made commercially? If period recipes aren't available, are there any diary entries that mention eating jerky?Â
Absent evidence that jerky was available, in my opinion we should not bring jerky to events because, if someone sees you eat it, its presence is an implicit statement that it was used in the situation being portrayed. Totally agree. I'm guessing you've seen the info on jerked beef from around the Louisiana/Texas area and imported from South America? We went through that for Into the Piney Woods, held in Louisiana, one of the few events where jerked beef seemed a reasonable option. It seemed a fairly regional thing, though. I'd also be curious for any references to it in other parts of the south or northeast, outside of hunters and Indians. There was "dried beef," of course, but that was like the dried beef you get at the deli, prepared in a large piece like ham and finally sliced very thin for eating, but not sliced before drying like jerked beef. Here's part of an email I sent to our group for ITPW on the topic: There wasn't much jerked beef up where I live, except among hunters, Indians, that kind of thing, but there was a lot in the LA/TX area. I don't know how much was made locally and how much had been imported from South America via New Orleans. Apparently it was a big thing in South America. For that kind of jerked beef, the longer the strip, the better. Here's a description of how it was made: http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA309&lr=&id=cMkpAAAAYAAJ&output=html(Article is in the lower right hand corner of the page.) And here's a mention of Louisiana-style Texas jerked beef, also mentioning it was dried in strips, length not specified: http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA382&lr=&id=ezQHRHgCfccC&output=htmlNote that they always seem to call it jerked beef, rather than jerky, though I've seen a few sporadic references to "jerky." Hank Trent hanktrent@voyager.net
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 05:43:22 PM by hanktrent »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Micaila
|
 |
« Reply #79 on: April 29, 2009, 06:28:49 PM » |
|
O.T. but.... How about good ole Pennsylvania Lebanon Bologna?  Does anyone know if that would have been "period?" Love that stuff. Too bad no one seems to carry it here in Oregon.
Paula, don't know if its Pennsylvania Lebanon Bologna but Fred Meyer carries Boar's Head Lebanon Bologna at the location near my house in Portland. HTH, Micaila
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|