1850s jackets or bodices?

[allaussie]

Hello ladies,
I've noticed a number of fashion plates mostly from the early 1850s where what I assumed to be a bodice doesn't match the skirt, my first thought was that this was some sort of a jacket and a matching bodice is hidden underneath but I'm not sure about this. I've collected all the ones I can find at the moment here http://formetoknow.myphotoalbum.com/view_album.php?set_albumName=album05 most of these examples are not worn with a bonnet (even when they are outdoors as the background can be an unreliable indicator in fashion plates), which suggests they are not actually designed for outdoor wear. Most of them also have the deep V neckline popular in the 50s which would not be sensible on a jacket designed for warmth. Can anybody enlighten me on whether they are bodices in their own right or jackets worn over a matching bodice.
thanks,
Elizabeth W.

[Denise Butler]

One drawback to collecting fashion plates by themselves is that the accompanying text, which would give context to the picture, is missing.

Some 1850s jackets looked very much like bodices, as these examples show:

1856 Ladies' Basquine a L'Espagnole

1856 Ladies' Jacket

1857 Jacket

[Elizabeth]

The basque bodice styles that have a "normally high" neckline can indeed be worn as stand-alone bodices in the 50s; some are designed with open lapels and other style features that necessitate a chemisette (partial or full white underbodice) worn with them.  Basque bodies may be in identical fabric to the skirts, or may indeed simply harmonize.

[BarbaraSmith]

So, this is the exception to the "no un-matching bodices and skirts" rule? 

I think Juanita skipped over that particular area of clothing in her book, and that rule above has become a reenactorism to the point of ridiculousness. 

I love little basques, and really want one with a V neck so I can fill it in with a lovely chemisette!!!

Cheers,
B.

[allaussie]

See it was the matching bodice and skirt 'rule' that had me confused, I knew blouses were an exception but I didn't know about basque bodices. I've spent so long trying to convince people that 16th century dresses were sewn as one and 99% of non matching bodice and skirts in pictures are actually a jacket over a matching bodice that my first instinct was 'this can't be what it looks like'
thanks for clearing this up for me.

[bevinmacrae]

There actually was a whole section in Jaunita's book about un-matching bodices and skirts. There are at least four pictures of examples in the book. All of the bodices appear dark, worn with probabbly very different skirts, most likely wool or silk. Take a look! I can't beleive how much I miss and am constantly having to go back to that book again and again. I guess it's just a great resource!
~Bevin

[Elizabeth]

Basques *are* one instance of "harmonizing, but not necessarily same fabric" dressing--however, they do fall out of popular favor for everyday clothing in the 60s, and are much more likely to be used in the 50s.  Because it's so very easy to update a matching-fabric basque bodice to a straight-waist bodice in the 60s, the change is not expensive, and it's a good way to move clothing forward with new fashions.  For those in the 50s, though, a good basque is a thing of beauty.   They do continue to show up in the 60s, just not in the same quantities... and jackets of all sorts *ARE* worn in the 60s, over one-piece dresses, as well as over white bodice combinations for the young and/or stylish.

[allaussie]

well as I'm entirely free to choose my time period (the balls that I go to are very relaxed about whether you even turn up in period costume or modern clothing and themes are pretty broad 'Victorian' 'baroque' etc.) and I like 50s fashions (open V necklines help keep you cool) and especially the undergarments (it's easier to drive in petticoats than hoops) so I'll keep this in mind.
thanks
Elizabeth W.

[Amanda L]

hmmm would those jacket patterns work over my pagoda sleeved dress? or should I stick to a mantle for next winter. I have some nice brown wool.

[Elizabeth]

Brown wool trimmed in a bright red wool in a mantle style would sure be pretty!  If you need lots of warmth, a jacket would be a good option, but if it's just light warmth (NOT -35* cold weather like we can get up here), a mantle might be a great use.

[Amanda L]

Later, after I had gotten off the computer I had the thought that a mantle would be better for my uses as I could nurse under it.

[BarbaraSmith]

You know, I've suddenly been re-thinking my paletote lust and considering mantles. Not for nursing.  I told you we were psychically linked, Amanda! 
B.