Dress pleats

[Joanna Jones]

OK, pleating skirt to bodice - doing "divide and conquer" - nothing fancy about the pleats (no double inverted box pleats or any such nonsense): must it be lots of little pleats or is it OK to have fewer, wider pleats?  The latter looks the best on me.  The dress is for early war. 
Thanks, Joanna,
 who wishes she had some Petersham ribbon right now

[BarbaraSmith]

You can have bigger pleats, my dear. Gauging was passe by the war years. I think you can also get away with single directional knife pleating. Very very easy. Though it bothers me, and I feel compelled to do a box pleat in the center and got the other way. 

SKIRT THE ISSUE, MY DEAR! 
B.

[felicite]

Ohhhhh, Barbara! Don't say that, or I'll bite your arm off. Gauging wasn't passe, it just wasn't as dominant. My "latest thing from Paris" dress is from '61 Peterson's and it's gauged, and most definitely gauged or gathered in the engravings. However, I will allow that the silhouette (sudden width) given by gauging was beginning to fall from favor around '62, and by '64 the bulk was starting to move backward, with an interest in flatter, closer fronts, so flat-laying pleats became increasing popular.

But gauging passe - harrumph!

[Joanna Jones]

Geeze. guys, don't get in a fist fight over this   I hadn't even mentioned guaging - I'm pleating.  I just wanted to know if wide pleats (1 1/2 to 2 inches) were OK or if they needed to be narrower (and yes, I will be switching direction at the front, back and sides and I know how to do that).  Put down your gathering needles and step away from the dressform!

[Carolann Schmitt]

Joanna -

Most of the directional or "knife" pleats on original dresses are approximately 1" wide. I don't recall seeing any that were wider than that. Box pleats average between 1.5" and 3", getting wider as the years progress.

Regards,
Carolann

[Elizabeth]

Hee hee... I like the Step Away From the Dress Forms!

Joanna, I'd go with the about 1" size--they look tidy, but not overly fussy.  No need to try for 1/4" spacing or some such.   The "switch" at the side body is really commong, to have pleats facing center front and center back, and it's not unusual to have slightly deeper (hidden folds) pleats at the center back.  The reveal on the front is the same, but a tad more fabric is folded into the pleats at the back, for better skirt balance.

Gauging seems to decrease in use in the 60s in several types of dresses: better silks and wools, for two.  Sheers still show up gauged, and plain old wash dresses might be done either way.

[BarbaraSmith]

Okay! Okay! Sorry! Ow! Quit biting me, Amie! 

Sheesh, thought I knew what I was talking about... 'parently not... 

See? This is why I try to stay pre-1860. I haven't a clue what happened after that. 

LOL,
B.

[felicite]

I suppose I can deign to forgive you, Barbara - if you promise to put me up on your sofa and show me your fort if I ever make it up to Washington. =D

It's a particular goal of mine to spend time at every historic interpretation site I possibly can. *happy sigh*

And - ow! 1/4" knife pleats would be absolutely mind-numbing. 1" is a little less crazy-making. Of course, when I gauged one skirt, I actually enjoyed making the tiny, even stitches so much that they were.....too tiny. I had to squiiiiiiiiiiiiish the bulk reeeeeeeeeeally thoroughly to get alllllllllllll those pleaties into the poor waistband. So maybe I shouldn't shudder at 1/4" knife pleats - that might be the sort of thing I end up doing....scary, scary thought.

Oh, and to clarify - my '61 dress that's gauged is made up in a cotton calico (because I was more or less stranded during a Canadian winter and that's what I had), and while the article I believe doesn't say what the dress is to be made of (unless maybe it says muslin?), it's definitely something lightweight, and as it's all gathery, it really doesn't look like a wool, beyond that I'm not sure. My other gauged skirt is a green linen...which is actually too small for me anyway! Harrumph! My black silk is 1" knife pleated and I have ambitions toward tricky box pleats for my plaid challis. The rest of my wardrobe is....obsolete. So, I don't seem to be too far off the mark on the gauging representation. I'm just sensative about the issue after having been cruelly picked on by a fashion show speaker who didn't know what she was talking about. Sob!

Lordy, I'm sorry - I shouldn't be allowed near a keyboard after a 4 hour drive with my crazy dad. I'm way too keyed up! I apologize for my madness. =P

[Elizabeth]

Never accept criticism from unreasonable people.

Besides, a fashion show is an overview--not a personal critique.  Yes, it's important to have accurate styles represented, but no one beyond the actual speaker can SEE the skirt treatment, so picking on you in public for gauging rather than pleats (which is variable, anyhow) was pretty unreasonable.

I'm confident that YOU will never be so rude in a fashion show position, and will only point out the good things.

[felicite]

Thank you for the vote of confidence! It's very important to me that people come out of my fashion shows feeling glad that they participated, not criticized. When I was brought in last minute to arrange the fashion shows at Moorpark, I went scurrying around the site looking for people to put onstage, and while not everyone was 100% (well, I don't know if anyone is 100%.....), I stuck to my rule of 1) Center part, no bangs, 2) Dropped shoulder seams, 3) Some kind of support (unless of course it works for the persona), 4) Hopefully a petticoat.

There were off-white undersleeves and rayon lace and even (sigh) an 1870s bonnet, but overall I felt like it worked, and no one went away feeling picked on. Well, except my friend Kimberley. She actually wears her wash dress every day at a historic home and it's wearing very naturally, which I pointed out to the fascinated audience. Kimberley stuck her tongue out at me afterwards, but I don't think she was actually wounded, and people loved seeing how her dress had faded where it's not covered by the apron, and how some of the seams were showing wear.

I'm just kind of worried that people may end up getting offended at not being included in the future, either because I simply missed asking them, or because I decided for one reason or another they wouldn't be giving a proper piece of education. Ah, politics. It makes me nervous!

[BarbaraSmith]

Hey, just remember that it can't be any worse than what I did at a fashion show some years back. The lady giving the show is known as a dragon, but for some reason, she and I have always gotten along. She's mean to everyone but me. I don't know why. As I get older and look in the mirror, I think it's because she thinks I'm related to her... (Yes she lives in Oregon, You Who Wonder) 

ANYWAY, so she's yammering along and being prissy and all, and I'm getting bored just standing there in the hot sun, and at some point, she tells me to turn around so she can yammer on about the back of my gown, and again, I'm really bored....

So I turn, and she's in front of me, so she can't see what I do, and I bend over and throw my hoops over my head, and moon the audience, just as she's describing my drawers, which they can't see. The crowd (rather large) WHOOPS and hollers, and she spins around and sees me with my drawers in flagrante delicto, and WHOOPS herself, and swats me on the behind and hustles me off the stage.

Now, in my defense, I was wearing flesh colored bicycle shorts underneath, so no one got a free shot. And, immediately regretting my "cheek", I was worried about a good tongue lashing, or worse, from the Grand Dame herself, and tried to hide behind the stage wall. She comes scurrying offstage and grabs my arm hard.... and bursts out laughing! She was CRYING, she laughed so hard. She begged me to do all her fashion shows after that. I think she burst a stay she was so overcome....

So there. Fashion shows CAN be fun! 

Unrepentantly,
Auntie B

[Elizabeth]

I'll likely split the fashion show discussion out to it's own topic, as I do think it's important, and that way we'll be able to find it better in the future.  

I've never considered that particular lady to be a dragon--she does have a very good sense of humor.   I'll just bet she did bust a stay laughing over the Moon. LOL

I know the lady in question, and I'll say that the fashion-show set-up in that particular area is the absolute Most Difficult arrangement for any narrator: the "Cattle Call" show, where anyone interested in participating just shows up, and everyone expects to be used and commented on.  It is VERY hard for a narrator to work with this setup.  (Of course, my solution would be: change the set up, and make it less difficult!)  The Cattle Call makes it very hard to organize folks by "type" of clothing, and you have the potential to have such a huge range of accuracy--and, it's hard to keep things concise!  Even folks who love fashion will find their attention lagging after 20 minutes of the same stuff.  Narrating is like giving a good sermon: hit the high points, and stop before the audience starts glancing at watches.

If one MUST do the Cattle Call style (due to local politics, etc), it IS possible to make it more streamlined and conducive to accuracy.  A few ideas:

Get folks gathered early.  This gives time to do rough groupings into "types of clothing" or activity groups. 

If you have a whole set of day dresses, and a whole set of "working clothing", it's far easier to gloss over the really wrong stuff, because you can say, "Here we have a group of ladies dressed for active work.  You'll notice X, Y, Z.  Aprons are a very important part, yada yada.  You'll notice the headwear is for function, not necessarily fashion, etcetera.  These women are dressed to do activities one, two, three, blah, blah, blah."

This doesn't put a spotlight on any one outfit (good or bad), but lets you pull someone with particularly good stuff forward for a quick, "Notice the use of petticoats, rather than a hoop, but that the silhouette is still the same..."  You're grouping the non-great stuff in, and including everyone, without saying that it's specifically bad OR good. 

It also lets you keep your remarks on any one category of quite short, because you're not trying to comment on every single garment for every single person.  If you spend 2-3 minutes on a broad category, that's actually plenty!  The folks who are interested in clothing will come up and chat more after, I find.  Keeping a "Fashion Overview" to under 20 minutes gives ample demonstration time, without running so long that folks get tired standing and watching.

This format also lets you pre-plan most of your remarks.  Some of the worst "accuracy atrocities" can be committed when the narrator is trying to come up with something to say for Every Single Person!  There's only so many times you can say, "and here's the same dress, in a different fabric!"   Grouping lets you do up some basic comments, point out 2-3 unique features using various "good" examples, gloss over anything negative, and serve both Accuracy and Politeness.

Over time, you can introduce different types of fashion shows, with the idea of "keeping things new and fresh for the spectators." 

I've done up more thoughts on this whole thing in the Value-Added Events article on the main site, in the Compendium--Liz's Stumps.  Yep, I'm opinionated.  At history-heavy events, fashion reviews usually won't fit into the scenario.  At more "smorgasboard" style events, they do tend to be a good spectator draw.  There are ways to make the presentation far easier for the narrator, more interesting for the public, and an actual learning experience for the participants, as well.

[felicite]

The civilian director for the ACWS, the group I was asked to do fashion shows for, is an absolute darling and seems to trust me to make decisions. We have a history of semi-cattle call, semi-invited in the area, so I'm hoping and praying I can manage to move toward invited without too much trouble. The president of the ACWS doesn't see much use for civilians, but he personally thanked us for the cooking presentation my friends and I did a year ago, and sent someone to measure our space and make sure we had plenty next time. That's promising, especially as it's a very limited space event. He's always been friendly toward me, and has a weakness for pie (most men do!) so I'm hoping I can bake him into an open mind if neccesary.

I've read your article on fashion shows several times, Liz, and keep a printed copy in my binder! I did indeed group people that way for the shows at Moorpark (a different organizer, just a coincidence that they asked me), and I liked the way it worked. I had enough fashionable type clothes that I divided them into traveling and at home wear, which really helped clarify. I had two VERY nice examples of hard-wearing wash dresses and slat bonnets, and several decent-to-good examples of simple daytime attire. I even had authentic menfolk to wrap things up, but I forced Joshua to describe their clothes, because I was afraid I'd freeze up or use entirely the wrong words. I need to get a crash course in men's clothing.

I'd really like to be able to include a "dressing the lady" demo with the fashion show when I have sufficient time. Happily, my first ACWS fashion show event is at a locale with a lot of non-military interest, and as I recall, an actual small stage and genuine seating for the fashion show. So I'm hoping it will be able to comfortably go longer for those interested. Pausing between segments to say what's coming next, what other activities are happening soon, and when the next fashion show is, to allow people who are ready to move on to do so might help.

As far as moving this goes - that sounds like a good idea! I think there needs to be an "It's not an article of clothing" forum! =)