Styles of Men's shirts

[Carolann Schmitt]

Hi, Kelly -

I've seen similar reinforcements on some other shirts. One was sold at the Whitaker Auction last spring. The size and shape of the reinforcement at the bottom of the bib really varies from shirt-to-shirt. It's interesting to see the different shapes and construction.

This is a neat shirt; thanks for posting the link.

Carolann

[billclark]

WOW the white shirt by that seller is amazing!!  I am going to reproduce that this summer for sure!!!!!   The cartridge pleating at the neck and cuffs wow! 

Bill

(who is cursing the fact that he has noooo time this weekend left to try and make this shirt, gosh final exam studying is really getting in the way of my sewing projects! )

[Elizabeth]

The gathering on the linen shirt is stroked gathering, not gauging or cartridge pleating.  The difference is one of edges: in gauging or cartridge pleating, the raw edge is turned down, the piece is gathered along the fold, and the folded edge of each gathering pleat is whipped to a finished edge.  With stroked gathering, the gathering is worked along a raw edge, and the gathering pleats are individually whipped to the folded-under seam allowance of the flat garment section--for a cuff, band, or waistband, this places seam allowances inside the finished band.  You can see the seam allowances inside the band quite clearly in the shirt sleeve cuff closeup.  You can also see a line of topstitching right up to the gathered portion--after that, the construction switches to whip stitches, where the gathers are secured.

[debi casey]

Kelly,

Burnley & Trowbridge Co. has a plaid (linen) similiar to this example and it only $12/yd.

Debi

[kellydorman]

Hi Debi,

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not finding it on their site - am I missing something really obvious (yet again)?

Kelly

[debi casey]

Ohhh....maybe its because I have samples here on the table.  You have to order the samples from them.

Debi

[Catherine Molanphy]

However, you could "retro-fit" the Laughing Moon pattern by cutting the body of the shirt with straight side seams and a square shirt tail and moving the sleeve opening to the seam rather than a placket cut into the sleeve. You could even convert the yoke to a shoulder seam. These alterations would make it more typical of the styles worn during the 1860s. Folkwear also has a Victorian shirt pattern that can be retro-fitted to 1860s styles.

And now I will use my whiny voice: am I correct in inferring that, if one is not a competent enough sewist to feel comfortable retro-fitting patterns herself, there really are no options for her in terms of obtaining a shaped 1860's civilian shirt? I'm trying to outfit a Staten Island store owner from the 1860's, and feel fairly confident that he wouldn't be romping around in something old-fashioned, but I can't find anything, either ready-made or a pattern, that seems appropriate.

[Carolann Schmitt]

Hi, Catherine -

Do you have access to a copy of Thoughts on Men's Shirts by Bill Brown? It has detailed drawings with measurements for the original shirts shown in the book. It is very easy to adapt these illustrations to draft your own pattern or alter a commecial pattern.

Ageless Patterns www.agelesspatterns.com #1048 is a copy of an original pattern published in 1869. It is only available in the original size and the instructions are minimal, but the cut is also appropriate for earlier in the decade.

I wish Simplicity had published Martha McCain's pattern for a shaped or French cut shirt, collars, cuffs and cravats.     It was perfect for this period.

Carolann

[Catherine Molanphy]

Yes, I do have access to that book, and I have perused it at length... I guess I just need to jumpstart my brain-- but whenever I hear the words "alter a pattern" I start to twitch. I guess I'm just surprised that no one as yet has issued such a pattern!

I do remember from that book that Bill Brown made the comment that military issue shirts were always a bit behind the latest fashion, so I suppose it is not surprising that there are no shaped shirt patterns on the market, since, after all, this hobby was mostly born out of people doing a military impression, and much of the products out there cater to the military reenactor's needs. I get the sense that many of the pattern companies who carry a civilian shirt did it sort of as an afterthought... you know what I mean?

(Thanks for directing me to Ageless Patterns! A pattern with minimal instructions is better than no pattern at all...)

[Carolann Schmitt]

I guess I'm just surprised that no one as yet has issued such a pattern!

It's not for lack of trying! But there has to be a market...a market for a pattern that has several pieces, uses better (and thus more expensive than something on the dollar table at the mega-mart) fabric and requires a significant investment of time and workmanship for proper construction.  While most of the members of this forum see the value in such a pattern or a garment produced from the pattern, that's not the case for the majority of those in the hobby, or for the millions of other sewists who equate historic patterns with Halloween costumes. 

Carolann

[LissaWilson]

Elizabeth - Is there any way to make this thread sticky? It seems that I and others keep coming back to this one because of all the great info!

[Elizabeth]

'Tis Stuck. 

[Joseph Stevens]

Ageless Patterns www.agelesspatterns.com #1048 is a copy of an original pattern published in 1869. It is only available in the original size and the instructions are minimal, but the cut is also appropriate for earlier in the decade.

Carolann,
Without having the pattern to look at it, the illustration of it is incredibly close to the Folkwear Victorian Shirt (http://www.folkwear.com/images/202views.gif).

If you've used it before, could you explain the differences?  This one has been on my list of things to purchase, but I keep forgetting to.  Most particularly I'm wondering if the small band seen along the top at the shoulder (http://www.agelesspatterns.com/images/1048.GIF) is just that--a narrow reinforcing band sewn along/over the seam as in earlier shirts, OR if its a continuation of a yoke from the back as found later.  If its the latter, does one find shirts that could date to the early 1860's with a yoke in back and a shoulder seam thats slightly advanced toward the front (as in the Folkwear pattern and many of the variations running around at events)?

My copy of Thoughts On Men's Shirts In America 1750-1900 arrived yesterday so I can start on my next phase of impression improvement this off season: shirts and drawers.  I put that off until this year because I decided that a shirt is less glaringly obvious than the uniform worn over it. 

~Joseph Stevens

[Carolann Schmitt]

Joseph -

I think I still have a copy of Ageless Patterns #1048; it's been visiting friends the past few years but I think it came back home. If it has, I'll be happy to pull it out and look at it as soon as I have a spare moment.

I'll have to check my files for more details on back yokes; right now my brain is focused on vests. However, the forward shoulder seam is not something I recall seeing on original shirts.

I'll get back to you on both topics as soon as I can. I'm inundated with Conference preparations at the moment.

Carolann

[Ms. Jean]

I would like to hear about the men's shirt patterns available from James Country/Homespun:

http://www.jamescountry.com/patterns/homespunpatterns.html

They carry a Civilian Shirt, and Federal Shirt, and a Pleated Front Dress Shirt.

(DH doesn't like the ruffle-free Folkwear Poet's Shirt anyway.)

Thank you!

Jean

[Phil Graf]

I have the Pleated Dress Shirt pattern, and I don't like it.  It's too short and doesn't fit well in the shoulders.  The pleats are bizarre, and the neck opening is cut too small for me.  I've found the original Godey's plate the pattern is based on, and I'm thinking of trying it out to see if I get a better result.

[Carolann Schmitt]

I've tried all three of these and don't like any of them. I had the same issues Phil did with all three styles.

Carolann

[Ms. Jean]

Thank you.

Drat, but thank you!

Jean

[LissaWilson]

Has anyone tried this pattern?

http://www.pastreflectionsreproductions.com/patterns%20and%20artwear/Pattern%20description%20pages/PRP005ManTFshirt.html

I don't recall a discussion on it and I am looking for a more formal shirt option for mid-late 1850s. The back yoke seemed to be more curved and the armscye a little bit more shaped so I thought it might be a better option for reading later than the Past Patterns. Thoughts?

[Paris-Lynne Graham]

I don't know about that shirt Lissa, but for $26 it better come with a Jim-Ruley-genie-in-a-bottle!   
Paris