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Author Topic: Cravats  (Read 41032 times)
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bevinmacrae
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« Reply #80 on: December 13, 2007, 10:08:05 AM »

Ok so big cravats for 50's, thin ones for 60's. Well, that is how fashion swings, now isn't it!
Bevin
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Bevin MacRae

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Phil Graf
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« Reply #81 on: December 13, 2007, 11:16:32 PM »

I think I should clarify and expand on my previous post, based on the last photograph in Jason's post. 

The "huge cravats" I was referring to are the very boxy and rectangular type that look like a bowtie on steroids or some sort of gag apparel.  The older style cravat that would seem to look at home on a sailor was still used in the 1860's, and seems to be mostly worn loosely, and often even tied around the collar of an overshirt.
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bevinmacrae
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« Reply #82 on: December 14, 2007, 10:00:53 AM »

It is the bowtie like ones that I was referring to, as well. I wish i could post some of the pics in this book, but I don't want to impinge on copyrights. Personally, I think those big ones would be quite a bear to wear. For one thing, you may not fit through the door without smashing the edges!
Bevin
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Bevin MacRae

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Richard Green
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« Reply #83 on: February 14, 2008, 10:36:38 PM »

Just a couple of things that I did in mine.  I've begun putting a piece of sizing into my folded scarf cravat so that it doesn't roll down...keeps it standing up.  I begin with the center of the cravat in the front of my throat.  I take each end around the back, they cross, then come around forward opposite from where they started.  Then, I do a 'bow tie' style.  If I want a large tie, the ends are short and everything is a bit 'puffy'.  If I want the ends longer, like the last photo from the above list, I do that, but now I cross them and put a pin through them.  It gives it a more full look, and takes it away from the Col Sanders thing.

Richard
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iphigenia
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« Reply #84 on: April 14, 2008, 09:10:58 PM »

Dredging up an old topic...

A guy I work with is wanting a cravat (for this weekend, of course  Roll Eyes ).  I told him that I would see if I could make one up for him out of the silk I had leftover from my dress.

After reading this whole thread again, I am utterly confused about how to make a cravat-- square or rectangle, shaped or not, one thickness and folded, or double and sewn-- argh!

This is the look he's wanting...




He doesn't want a pre-tied one... though to me the examples above look like they may be pre-tied.

Help!
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Ms. Jean
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« Reply #85 on: April 15, 2008, 04:09:23 AM »

My dear Curator of Stuff, crowned so by Mrs. Robles of Mrs. Parker's Millinery, Cowtown:

Make the cravat look just like the picture.  Hand the cravat too him in front of another person.  Carry a copy of the picture with you.  Point out to the other person that it looks just like the picture. Cool

My husband has an authentic hairline & my son authentically declines to use a comb!

Jean
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Ms. Jean
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iphigenia
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« Reply #86 on: April 16, 2008, 01:03:37 PM »

Okay, when I told him that those looked pre-tied to me, he said that he doesn't care whether it's pre-tied or not, he just wants whatever will accurately achieve that look.

Hmmmmm... I've never attempted anything like this before.  My boss does have a pre-tied cravat that he was going to loan to this guy for the event-- maybe I can take it home with me and figure out how it's put together.

We'll see if this gets finished in time for the weekend.  Roll Eyes

My silk remnant is 28" wide by 36" long.  That should be sufficient, no?
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Carolann Schmitt
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« Reply #87 on: April 16, 2008, 01:09:35 PM »

Laura -

Your remnant will be more than enough. I've gotten pre-tied cravats from as little as 1/4 yard of fabric. I had to do a LOT of bias piecing, but it worked.  Smiley

Carolann
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Carolann Schmitt - Only a historian understands how much you need to know in order to recognize how much you don't know. - Elizabeth Ann Coleman
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iphigenia
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« Reply #88 on: April 16, 2008, 02:16:43 PM »

^ That's good to know!

So much for not taking on a project right before another event.  Roll Eyes  And of course he wants it by the event even more after we learned today that a wet-plate photographer is probably going to be here.
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iphigenia
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« Reply #89 on: April 16, 2008, 04:23:58 PM »

I was looking in Norah Waugh's The Cut of Men's Clothes, 1600-1900, and she talks about stocks and cravats on pages 119-120.  She says that sometimes the cravat (not pre-tied) was folded over a "stiffener" (we actually have two of these, made of horsehair, in our collection).
 
She goes on to say, "Cravats with or without stiffeners, were worn for sport and by the elderly until almost the end of the century, but by the 1850's the fashionable cravat had become a made-up band-- 'the necktie'."

Soooooo... it seems to me that you would want a stiffening layer in the band of a pre-tied tie, as well.  Am I correct in this assumption?  The repro example I have to look at does not have any stiffening layer, as far as I can tell, but to be it seems a little, uh, floppy.

Would buckram be appropriate, or would that be too stiff?  Should the stiffening layer extend all the way around the band, or is it just in front?

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Mary Gutzke
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« Reply #90 on: April 16, 2008, 07:47:01 PM »

Laura, any chance you'd be willing to write out instructions once you make up the cravat?  I have several remnants of silk that are itching to be made into cravats. I really should get myself a pattern. But if you come up with a good method... Grin
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Mary Gutzke
iphigenia
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« Reply #91 on: April 16, 2008, 07:54:00 PM »

We'll see if I can figure it out, first!   Cheesy
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iphigenia
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« Reply #92 on: April 17, 2008, 11:41:08 PM »

Okay, I've got a cravat made up--

I haven't finished off the ends yet, because I want him to try it on and see how the length is first.  I think I'm going to do a little tab of elastic with an eye or ring on one end, and a hook on the other-- Brian Koening sent me some photos of original pre-tieds, and that was how one of them fastened. 

I used two layers of silk with a layer of starched cotton twill in between for the band.  Hopefully that will be stable enough.  I was afraid that buckram would rub through the silk.

This is what is looks like so far:


I figured I'd let the guy who will be wearing it fiddle with the way it lays, and then I may tack it in place the way he wants it.

Opinions?  Suggestions?

Also, I have no clue what to charge for something like this... if anyone can throw out a figure, PM me, please!  Smiley
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NoahBriggs
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« Reply #93 on: April 18, 2008, 03:30:32 AM »

Beautiful tie!

I'd guess $35, based on the prices at Corner Clothiers.
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Mary Gutzke
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« Reply #94 on: April 18, 2008, 04:38:56 AM »

Looks lovely, Laura!! It looks like you constructed the bow part piece by piece and then attached it to the band? How many bow pieces did you use? Overall width of the bow?

Sorry for the questions...I know you're not done yet but it looks great.
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Mary Gutzke
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« Reply #95 on: April 20, 2008, 06:38:49 PM »


Wonderful cravat!

Minimum price: materials times 3

1/4 silk, cotton twill, fastener x3 minimum.

Unless perhaps this is an eligible bachelor  Roll Eyes

Jean
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Ms. Jean
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iphigenia
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« Reply #96 on: April 20, 2008, 07:44:27 PM »

Thanks for the compliments-- the guy really liked it and said that it was ~exactly~ what he wanted.  But we decided that I'm going to have to do a little more work on it and beef up the bow, because once he was wearing it, it became clear that the silk didn't have enough body by itself for that style-- I'll post another picture or two once I get that solved.  I did tell him that I would have to charge him more if I had to take it apart and put it back together!

I'll just say that the price he agreed to was more than enough to pay for my tintype. Wink

Jean-- ummmm... no, not an eligible bachelor! Cheesy Not gonna go there!
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Scott McMahon
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« Reply #97 on: April 30, 2008, 07:15:45 PM »

Doriece Colle's book Collars, Stock, Cravats: A History and Costume Dating Guide to Civilian Men's Neckpieces 1655-1900 (Emmaus, PA: Rodale Press, Inc., 1972) has a very detailed history of cravats with extensive line drawings and photographs. There are no scaled patterns, but the illustrations are sufficiently clear that you could draft your own without much difficulty.

Ms. Schmitt,

 I was wondering how much coverage there is on the 1820's-40's in the above mentioned book. Also are there any pretied stocks featured in this particular work? I understand the pretied stock was something of a cottage industry in the mid 19th century or at least I thought I read that somewhere...

 Any comments would be welcome!

Sincerely,
Scott McMahon
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BrianKoenig
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« Reply #98 on: May 09, 2008, 11:09:54 PM »

I was wondering how much coverage there is on the 1820's-40's in the above mentioned book. Also are there any pretied stocks featured in this particular work? I understand the pretied stock was something of a cottage industry in the mid 19th century or at least I thought I read that somewhere...

There are pages and pages of the 1820s-1840 period in the book. There are some images of original pre-tied stocks as well. It really is a great reference, which can be a little pricey on the used market, but interlibrary loan is cheap!
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Brian Koenig

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« Reply #99 on: October 13, 2008, 02:15:33 PM »

There are pages and pages of the 1820s-1840 period in the book. There are some images of original pre-tied stocks as well. It really is a great reference, which can be a little pricey on the used market, but interlibrary loan is cheap!

 I was able to get the book through interlibrary loan and it was wonderful! I "redesigned" my neck stocks based on the information in the book and they add quite nicely to the period look I was going for. Thank you for the lead on this one!

Sincerely,
Scott McMahon
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