Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Sacque and Petticoat outfit/dress  (Read 5906 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
gweninla
Guest
« on: November 24, 2006, 02:14:05 PM »

Would appreciate input on  Past Patterns #808. Sacque and Petticoat. I've been studying old photos, looking for more info. There is no sketch of the back that I can find  so far.

Would this outfit  be appropriate for a CW era working poor farm woman in her late 50s? 

Pattern description notes "to portray a lady in the privacy of her own home or outdoors in a secluded rural setting".

The persona I'm developing is based on  my own great-grandmother and her sisters, who travelled from PA to OH & KS. They made have been ladylike, but weren't 'ladies' in the sense of material wealth.

I know they may have been wearing 2nd hand clothes, perhaps out of style or restyled.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Gwen in l.a.

 
Logged
Elizabeth
Administrator
Scribblor Infinitus
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7895


WWW
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2006, 04:44:46 PM »

It has potential.

However, you'll definitely want to make up a muslin.  The pattern is taken from an original, and you may well need some large adjustments to get the whole thing to balance--such as repositioning the entire neckline to avoid the whole sacque wanting to hang to the back and choke you. 

Honestly, though, I'd go for a simple one-piece dress, in something durable like a lightweight wool.  It's dirt-common, so finding them second hand is definitely an option, and it's one of those things that's "suitable" for either chores, or cleaning up for better uses.
Logged

Regards,
Elizabeth
Joanna Jones
Guest
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2006, 07:57:04 PM »

I love Past Patterns. Love them.  Having said that, however, I made one saque and petticoat and assisted in the making of another, and said a whole lot of dirty words.  It just did not hang right no matter what we tried.  Eventually we got it, but I think it would have been easier to start from scratch and eyeball it than follow that pattern. Tongue  Joanna
« Last Edit: November 24, 2006, 10:34:05 PM by Joanna Jones » Logged
gweninla
Guest
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2006, 08:42:53 PM »

Thank you! Saved me a struggle.

Will go for the wool dress and be done with it Smiley

Gwen
Logged
Acacia
Guest
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2006, 10:33:21 AM »

I’m surprised that this pattern has not come off well for you all.  I’ve used this pattern a couple of times with very good success.  It looks every bit the working garment it is intended to be, with the bonus of being loose fitting and comfortable.  I will say, I found the saque to hang better when lined with a light-weight linen.  It’s very convincing when worn with an apron that belts in the waist.  There is one image in “Dressed for the Photographer” that has a family with several women shown.  At least one of the women is wearing this sacque type garment.  Foggy memory says (too lazy to run upstairs to get the book) there was more than one, but the one young woman that I do recall wears it with a belt.

P.S. Just a thought, the "petti" from this pattern is very practical.  Why not make the sacque AND a proper dress bodice so that you can wear them interchangeably or together for warmth? Smiley
« Last Edit: November 25, 2006, 10:36:56 AM by Acacia » Logged
Elizabeth
Administrator
Scribblor Infinitus
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7895


WWW
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2006, 10:39:02 AM »

Or, make the one-piece dress, and a sacque as a "coverall" sort of garment to extend the wearability... using it as a protective smock is one great use.

Some folks just have problems with the balance of the garment--it has to do with their own neck position relative to that of the original garment.  If one is a better match for the original wearer, it's not a big problem.  If one is shaped dramatically different from the original wearer, it requires a lot of rebalancing in the neckline/shoulder to get it to hang well.
Logged

Regards,
Elizabeth
BarbaraSmith
Scribblor Infinitus
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6106

I'm clueless, but competitive! ~ Trish Roseburg


« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2006, 07:25:00 PM »

Hi Gwen!

Have you read "Calico Chronicles"? There's a neat pic in there of a lady milking in what they term a "shortgown." I think it's a sacque that's belted with an apron. If this sacque pattern doesn't do it for you, you might try making a shortgown by eyeballing it, or using the Period Impressions pattern. Cut the neckline high in a jewel, rather than the low neck 18thC style.

We have documentation of bedgowns being worn and Fort Nisqually, and after much correspondence with some Canadians, I feel that gown looked very much like a cross between that Past Patterns Sacque and the Period Impressions Shortgown. Fuller in the sides, and higher in the neck than the PI, but not quite as full as the PP.

If all else fails, try the simple gathered bodice Liz suggests, or possibly the Sutter's Fort Work Dress. I've also heard nothing but "EASY!" about the Period Impressions work dress pattern. Everyone who'se made it at Nisqually looks quite good in it.

Hope this helps some!
Barbara in Tacoma, WA
Logged

Auntie B says: "I may look like Aunt Pitty-Pat, but I have the soul of Belle Watling," and "Since I can't be a good example, then I'm just gonna have to be a horrible warning."
gweninla
Guest
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2006, 09:36:52 PM »

I like the idea of the saque as a 'coverall' garment, and another layer, without wearing a shawl or paletot.

Haven't yet read Calico Chronicles; it is on my 'to buy and read' list. Better move it up a couple of notches Smiley

Gwen
Logged
Carolann Schmitt
Senior Research
Scribblor Infinitus
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4276


WWW
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2006, 06:24:34 PM »

I've worked with the entire Past Patterns line, and I detest this one. I've tried using it in a couple of classes and have had to literally re-draft the pattern. I had one student - very slender - that only needed minor tweaking, but there is something about the drafting and grading that makes it virutally unworkable for almost everyone else. I've tried it lined, and I've tried it belted, and I still don't like it. It's actually easier to take a basic toile or muslin and use it as a basis to draft a sacque than it is to work with this pattern.

However, in the process I did figure out how to alter the pattern to turn it into a "sack", aka outergarment.  Smiley

Regards,
Carolann
Logged

Carolann Schmitt - Only a historian understands how much you need to know in order to recognize how much you don't know. - Elizabeth Ann Coleman
cschmitt@genteelarts.com
www.genteelarts.com
netnet
Guest
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2007, 01:28:34 PM »

Is there a suggested alternative pattern for the sacque?
Logged
Anna G.
Guest
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2007, 02:08:34 PM »

Period Impressions has a traveling sacque pattern. I found it while browsing online and have never used it, but I'd be interested to see what the other ladies on the forum think about it.



-Anna
Logged
K Krewer
Senior Research
Scribblor Infinitus
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1407


Madame Goldschmidt


« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2007, 02:30:16 PM »

I've also used the Past Patterns sack and didn't like it.  For some reason, it ends up much shorter in the back than in front.  And I'm definintely not shorter in the back than in the front!

This past March for my "conference" dress, Anna Allen made me a sack and petticoat that is absolutely delightful Grin.  I sent her an original to work off of and she drafted her own pattern, but it's very much like the Period Impressions traveling sack.  The traveling sack is designed more as an outer garment, but you can make it unlined and just a tad smaller. 

K Krewer
Logged

K Krewer
Carolann Schmitt
Senior Research
Scribblor Infinitus
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4276


WWW
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2007, 05:11:49 PM »

Annette -

In my classes, we use the students' fitting shells as a basis for the pattern. We trace the neckline, shoulders, upper bodice and armscyes down to the mid-line of the bust. We then extend the vertical lines down and out to the desired length and width.

This is a photo of Kelly Dorman and K. Krewer wearing their sacque and skirt ensembles at this year's Conference. Sorry it's not a better photo, K.  Smiley



Regards,
Carolann
Logged

Carolann Schmitt - Only a historian understands how much you need to know in order to recognize how much you don't know. - Elizabeth Ann Coleman
cschmitt@genteelarts.com
www.genteelarts.com
netnet
Guest
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2007, 06:17:26 PM »

Yes, I remember the sacques from the conference. I was hoping for something quick and easy that I didn't have to draft as it's for someone else and I don't have much time. Thanks for the suggestions though, I may have to take a bodice pattern and fudge it a bit Smiley.



Logged
K Krewer
Senior Research
Scribblor Infinitus
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1407


Madame Goldschmidt


« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2007, 09:17:26 AM »

Sorry it's not a better photo, K.  Smiley
Regards,
Carolann
Oh my.  Well, as I sometimes tell my unhappy photographic subjects -- that IS what you looked like at that moment in time!
K Krewer
Logged

K Krewer
Jennifer T Wisener
Guest
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2007, 11:02:46 AM »

Anna G.,
Period Impressions, do a muslin first, none of the pattern pieces are the same length. 
I drafted my on sleeves, just didn't like the one with the pattern.

No real instructions, read from other sources and figured out the best course.
Logged
Anna G.
Guest
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2007, 04:24:17 PM »

Anna G.,
Period Impressions, do a muslin first, none of the pattern pieces are the same length.
I drafted my on sleeves, just didn't like the one with the pattern.

No real instructions, read from other sources and figured out the best course.

Thanks for the tips, Jennifer! I liked the general look of the sacque (based on the picture) but had no idea that the pattern wasn't that good. Glad I dodged a bullet there!  Cheesy

-Anna
Logged
Anna Allen
Guest
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2007, 11:47:39 AM »

Here are some larger pics of K Krewer's sacque and petticoat. If I remember correctly, I used a sacque pattern from Peterson's magazine that I had already enlarged. I adjusted it a bit, but it's pretty basic.

P.S. I HATE BB Code. AHHH. HATE. HTML is soooo much easier. Let's try this again...

Okay, this is NOT working and I don't have time to spend hours figuring how to link a picture using BB Code. SO...you can check out the images here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gracefullady/tags/1860sconferencedress
« Last Edit: August 09, 2007, 11:52:46 AM by Anna Allen » Logged
suzieliz
Guest
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2012, 07:53:02 AM »

De-lurking-- Just a couple of notes about the Past Patterns Sacque and Petticoat Pattern which I recently, well, *almost* completed (today is 3/5/12).  I definitely agree about making a muslin for the  bodice; the pattern  has some funkiiness around the shoulders and neckline. It also doesn't add piping at the armscyes (I've decided to add this). The pattern/instructions don't call for a kick panel and I decided to add that too.  Otherwise, I'm reasonably satisfied with the pattern but I wouldn't recommend it for a beginning. ---- Susan
Logged
K Krewer
Senior Research
Scribblor Infinitus
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1407


Madame Goldschmidt


« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2012, 08:32:08 AM »

Good choices.!

 (BTW, another name for the kick guard is a "hem facing".)
Logged

K Krewer
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines