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Author Topic: I know they're 18thC, but I want to wear them for 19thC!!!!  (Read 6975 times)
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BarbaraSmith
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« on: May 09, 2015, 04:49:22 PM »

Okay, B&T has some new clocked stockings and I'm enchanted:

http://www.burnleyandtrowbridge.com/cottonclockedstocking.aspx

I need to talk with someone(s) who have been researching stockings and footwear in the mid-19thC in England and America. I need to learn why I may not wear them in the 19thC.  Cry

Or I need a really nice friend to say "Wear them!!!" because I lurv them and those pretty blue stockings would look so nice with one of my dresses.  Cheesy

Miss me?  Grin

Love & Hugs,
Auntie B
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Ms. Jean
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« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2015, 06:58:09 PM »


I miss you, that's for sure!!!

(I'm an Expert Soccer Mom, and find blue stockings appropriate for Chelsea fans and KC Royals fans, and Michigan. )

The board has been hoppin', Jessamyn Crosser of Eras should be here soon, or another clothing expert.

Yes, you're missed!
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BarbaraSmith
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« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2015, 11:22:22 PM »

Ah!!! Thanks Jean!!! Smiley Yes Jessamyn may have some good advice. She always steers me away from the wrong collars. I'm sure she can steer me out of this lust for blue stockings.  Cheesy

Cheers,
Auntie B
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« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2015, 05:49:00 AM »

I just finished reading a book about socks and stockings.  I think it's the different colored gusset that makes these not common for mid-19th century.  The rest of the decoration and the color would be okay.  They certainly are pretty stockings.
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Mary Burbage
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« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2015, 06:11:21 AM »

Good Morning Auntie B - I can't help you with your question, but want to say it is good to hear from you.  We all miss you.  I had hoped to see you at the Oregon City conference on clothing and textiles.

Muriel
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Jessamyn
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« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2015, 09:31:30 AM »

What, I turn my back for five minutes and I'm being labelled a cross-dresser?

 Grin

I already posted on Babs's FB page, but I'm not your woman on this one. Stockings are Not My Thing. Listen to Ms. Burbage!

And Ms. Jean, I was just thinking about how I miss you!
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BarbaraSmith
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« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2015, 01:07:23 PM »

Thanks Mary for that tidbit. It's not the clocking, it's the "other colored" gusset that makes them not right for mid 19thC. That helps me lots. Can you point me to some resources for looking at mid 19thC stockings, by any chance?  Grin

Jessamyn, I did NOT call you a cross dresser! Okay, maybe I did.  Wink Aren't we all cross dressers? I mean even the folks that only do one time period are cross dressing into another period. Those of us who do multiple time periods, well shoot, that crosses all kinds of lines!  Grin

Thanks Muriel! I had another event come up in the same period as the Oregon City Conference, and I opted for New and Different with Long Time Cyber Friend, vs. going to Oregon City. I'm glad I did. I got to visit a whole new realm, which is opening up my friend-base and hobby-base, and I got to meet in person a lady I've been online friends with for over 10 years. Yes folks, I'm now officially a Sci Fi Geek. I am NOT a Trekkie.  Wink I AM developing a new love for sci fi fiction, and really enjoying running around with a truly interesting crowd of independently published authors. www.jenthulhu.com

Not sorry for going off topic there, since I know many of you share my love for sci fi.  Grin

Well, I might buy these stockings anyway, since I can wear them in the 18thC. And the blue ones would also go well with my Pet en l'air.  Grin

Cheers,
Auntie B
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« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2015, 04:31:32 AM »

I'm certainly not an expert on stockings, but I found Jeremy Farrell's book Socks and Stockings to be rather interesting.  It's an overview of stockings from the time of the Tudors to the 1980's, particularly from an English perspective.  The only thing I didn't like about it is that it presented suggestions from magazines or descriptions from fashion plates as what people did.

The knitting patterns I've seen for stockings from this period are generally quite plain, but they don't have the tall, thin gusset that was popular in Regency fashion plates and which the Burnley and Trowbridge stockings have.  They have a shorter gusset.  They could be embroidered afterward, but I really haven't read any instructions for stocking clock embroidery.

I know I've seen a few mid-century stockings in museum collections, but I don't have any particular links to share.  Sorry.
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Mary Burbage
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« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2015, 06:52:25 AM »

Unattributed source, beware! Here is a snapshot I found on Pinterest. (Yes, I know.)  Pretty short gusset, delicate clocking, and striped to boot.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/228135537345961233/

More typical stockings were plain white. Mary, here's a couple with openwork designs, one of which is dated 1860s (by the Met, which can be questionable) and one more general "19th century" from Whittaker. Have you seen any patterns similar to these?

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/228135537346029063/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/228135537346029048/

American Duchess has these embroidered silk stockings, which I believe were inspired by this pair from the Met:
http://www.american-duchess.com/historic-shoe-buckles-accessories/victorian-silk-stockings-white#product_description
http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/121590?rpp=20&pg=7&ft=stockings&when=A.D.+1800-1900&pos=137

The Met also has these elaborately clocked ones which it dates to 1865:
http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/121583?rpp=20&pg=2&ft=stockings&when=A.D.+1800-1900&pos=21

And these dark stockings with delicate embroidered clocking from ca. 1859:
http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/121468?rpp=20&pg=6&ft=stockings&when=A.D.+1800-1900&pos=103
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BarbaraSmith
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« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2015, 10:06:33 PM »

OOOOOOO!!!! Pwetty, Ginger, PWETTY!!!  Grin

So you think the B&T's are really more Regency era, then? I must pass that along to a friend of mine.

Mary, I'll look into that book, thanks for pointing me in the direction!!!

Funny enough, I was wading through the mess in the spare room yesterday and ran across a pair of clocked stockings I'd bought and not even unwrapped. They look very much like the American Duchess silk ones, but these are cotton. Not even sure where or when I acquired them.  Wink

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge! Ya'll are the BEST!  Grin
Auntie B
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« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2015, 04:24:38 AM »

Ginger - I haven't seen patterns for openwork stockings, but I haven't been looking for them either.  Until a couple of weeks ago, I didn't really know they wore openwork stockings, but now that I've seen a few examples, I'm going to have to look for patterns.  I'm sure I'm going to have a need to knit pretty stockings now that I've made plain ones.
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Mary Burbage
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« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2015, 06:34:52 AM »

Hmm... no, I'm not really sure about the B&T for Regency. Dating stockings precisely is pretty hard! Sometimes in fashion plates you can see clocked stockings, but offhand I don't recall any two-tone.  I think the most elaborate clocks were 18th century or earlier, and then again around 1900.  It's a good question; I may poke around some more and see what I can find. Smiley

Mary, you definitely need to knit pretty stockings. Cheesy
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Jessamyn
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« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2015, 05:10:14 PM »

I think I've seen two-tone for Regency. I'll scrounge and get back to you.

Barbara, I bet those are the white James Townsend ones with black clocks? We have an old pair at this house. The feet are much too big for me - it's a One Size Fits Men stocking, as far as I'm concerned.
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Ms. Jean
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« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2015, 05:43:13 PM »


Jessamyn, my cross country ski boots are marked 41.5.  Those stockings might fit my feet just fine. Roll Eyes

Aaaah, 41.5 just sounds gentler than 10.

Sorta like the advise of measuring for you corset in centimeters....
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Ms. Jean
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« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2015, 05:55:36 PM »

Well, my recollection is that they're long rather than big, so they might be just fine!

These are not really what I was thinking of vis-a-vis Regency two-tones, but goodness:

http://vi.sualize.us/stockings_ca_early_19th_c_via_the_kyoto_costume_insute_stockings_regency_picture_rfUg.html

Must scrounge further.

BTW, the V&A dates the first silk ones linked below 1750-70. Meg Andrews dates hers 1725-50. Colonial Williamsburg says ca. 1750. This was obviously a very popular 18th-century pattern, although no one can decide from when! I wish B&T were not using cotton. The Townsend cotton ones feel clunky to me. But at least the white Williamsburg pair are linen - albeit with silk clocks.

http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O139660/pair-of-stockings-unknown/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/455989530998341703/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/11329436539514961/
http://emuseum.history.org/view/objects/asitem/search@/11/title-desc?t:state:flow=51f8cbcb-798e-4337-940a-68f7073f0fca
http://emuseum.history.org/view/objects/asitem/search@/9/title-desc?t:state:flow=bb172922-2c84-4fa8-b87e-5c3680e3b31d

Very similar embroidered (I would say home-embroidered) version from now-defunct antique textile seller:
https://lifetakeslemons.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/gore-clock-stockings1.jpg

...and a better-made pair with soooooper-duper closeup of the embroidery:
http://eng.shoe-icons.com/collection/object.htm?id=2737
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Jessamyn
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« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2015, 06:16:03 PM »

Mary, a knitting pattern for child's openwork stockings:

https://books.google.com/books?id=UcVMAAAAMAAJ&dq=two%20color%20stockings&pg=PA265#v=onepage&q=two%20color%20stockings&f=false

I think open-worked stockings were mostly frame-knitted (I've seen references to both silk and very fine cotton in this context) but they do show up occasionally in those lists of Agricultural Society entries.

A note on clocked stockings for the 1860s:

"Some time ago we noticed partial symptoms of the revival of an old fashion of the last century?we allude to silk stockings having colored ornaments in the corners, or, as they are technically called, ?Clocked Stockings.? The ornaments are embroidered on stockings of silk and Lille thread. Last year this fashion had just made its appearance, but it is now getting more widely spread. These embroidered stockings are worn in full dress, and with high-heeled slippers. It is considered good taste to have the latter of the color of the dress." --Peterson's, 1862.
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« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2015, 06:36:16 PM »

The Met lists these as first quarter 19th century, and I'm pretty sure I've seen the skinny colored clocks in Regency-era fashion plates, but I'm not finding them offhand.

http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/175817?rpp=30&pg=2&ft=stocking&when=A.D.+1800-1900&what=Stockings&pos=43
http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/102638

For what it's worth, the Met has this pair labeled 1865.

http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/121583?rpp=20&pg=2&ft=stockings&when=A.D.+1800-1900&pos=21

Black and white may be most common, but there are some wild ones out there.

Jessamyn - I know most of the openwork stockings were frame/machine knit, but I'm sure there are patterns out there for some.  I'll check out the child's pattern.  It might be suitable for sizing up.  Knitting stockings is mostly mindless so I like them for when I'm riding around in the car.  Openwork stockings might not be so mindless, but they might be interesting.
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Mary Burbage
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« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2015, 06:46:08 PM »

Yes, what I meant about the Society entries is that those are always handwork of some kind.

Of course we will very much want to see them if you work some up!  Smiley
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BarbaraSmith
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« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2015, 06:00:15 PM »

I think I've seen two-tone for Regency. I'll scrounge and get back to you.

Barbara, I bet those are the white James Townsend ones with black clocks? We have an old pair at this house. The feet are much too big for me - it's a One Size Fits Men stocking, as far as I'm concerned.

Nope, these are very pale blue with blue clocks. I think I got them either from Elizabeth Aldridge or Delp Stockings. I can never resist a pretty stocking! Smiley
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« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2015, 08:56:24 AM »

I find hand knit open work stockings pretty common in museum collections. The hand knit ones were of heavier yarns than those really delicate machine knit ones and the construction is of course slightly different. The most darned stockings I've handled have been hand knit laces ones. Guess that says something about how much they were loved.


Beth
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